Tales Series

I think bloodthirsty is a pretty app description of Yuri as he goes down the path of vigilantism. It starts out with a single quick murder, one almost committed out of passion than real planning, for a target that has cleanly gotten away with his atrocities. Then Yuri targets Cumore, a man who hasn't been charged by the Empire but Yuri thinks he'll get away with it, and lets him die a painful, humiliating death while he stands above mocking him.

Yuri then pulls his "does what need be done" shtick on Don Whitehorse, acting as his second. This is significant because Yuri is killing a righteous man instead of a criminal scumbag, someone whose death is in no way his fault but has to occur to atone for the actions of someone else. Whereupon he decides he's been too soft and seriously considers murdering Judith if her reason for abandoning them wasn't good enough. Keep in mind that Judith isn't a murderous scumbag; she just slighted him. And in between that he tells Flynn, his best friend, that he'll kill him too if he ever ends up falling down.

And while Yuri rebukes Phaeroh, remember that when Estelle is turned into a weapon, he plans on killing her too. He tries as best he can to avoid that and ultimately succeeds, but he was still willing to go through with it if there was no other way. However by this point it's less being bloodthirsty and more actively having to save the world, because Estelle would have to be put down if Rita didn't magic up a solution.

It's not until the endgame and his fight with Flynn that Yuri realizes that he can't just enforce his views of justice on the world.

I wonder if being stabbed by Sodia had some impact on it as well.

I mean, there was a lot of selfishness in it, but considering his lack of issue with it, I always got the feeling he felt she was enforcing her own justice.

Or maybe I'm just looking at that one too deeply?

edited 15th Apr '18 10:01:11 AM by HandsomeRob

No, you're right on the money. Yuri even says he understands that she was trying to protect Flynn.

Alright then. If that's the case, then maybe it did have an effect. After all, if anything, she showed him just where his path would lead him (though ironically enough she felt a lot more guilt about her failed attempt to kill him then he did over his two successful attempts).

So, in Vesperia, I went to the Erealumen Crystallands and I fought Gusios. He became the spirit Gnome. After that, I went to Nordopolica and I participated in the 30 man and 50 man melee.

Errr. Either you aren't understanding me, I am not understanding you or we definitely disagree about Yuri's character development. You say you have beaten the game before, so ignorance is not the issue here.

Okay, the Don's scene. The guy is allowing himself to be killed by decapitation (guild's way to punish traitors) to atone for Harry's mistake. Your interpretation is that Yuri volunteers to off him because he has discovered BLOOD IS TASTY and KILLING IS EASIER THE MORE YOU DO IT and I WAS BORED BUT I GET TO KILL SOMEONE TODAY, WEEE! while I think (and everyone else, I hope) that he is the one because he wants to assure the Don his death will not be in vain and killing a fellow human, and not a beast, is nasty and scarring (Hey, hello Luke.)

So who was gonna do it if not him? A NPC guild member who would not even feel bad? The delicate princess? The antisocial mage? The kid who loved the man like a father? The DOG? (Wait, I don't remember if Raven is there during the scene, but he would have been a bad option. At this point he is still Alexei's puppet and the bastard would have gloated ALL ACCORDING TO PLAN when confessing his plan later, and it would give Raven haters a lot of ammo. Because Tales fans don't think fondly of traitors... except if it is MR TOP POPULARITY Leon.)

Then, Judith's scene. When Brave Vesperia was formed, and Judy agreed to be part of it, one rule was 'to always do what is right'. When she found out that the party's ship was powered by a forbidden blastia (her race taught her to destroy them on sight) she didn't doubt about breaking it, because for her it was the 'right thing'. Yuri knew she had a mission and never thought about killing her (punish yes, kill no.) The girl is not an idiot. She knew after the Don's scene that guilds are Serious Business and betrayal means death, she wouldn't do it without a reason.

Finally, weaponized Estelle. He does not plan to kill her. The princess, selfless to a fault, tells him it's ok to kill her. But Alexei, Magnificent Bastard as he is, counts on that as part of his Xanatos Gambit. 'Kill her and stop me, but your friends will scorn and hate you as a murderer... or don't, and I will conquer the world'. The whole scene reeks of As If You Would Really Do That.

At this point I consider your version of Yuri, who secretly wants to stab half his friends in their sleep, to be the perfect protagonist for Xillia 2, the game where the MC kills millions of innocents and there is NO Taking a Third Option at any point in the plot.

TLDR: Yuri admits vigilatism is not to be applied in ALL cases after Phaeroh, feels bad about killing after the Don and specially after Zombi Estelle, and definitely ditches it after Sodia stabs his guts in a daze, thinking that someday it might not be just a tsundere bitch doing that as much as the entire order of Knights under an arrest mission. NOT at the tail end of his quest.

edited 15th Apr '18 2:42:01 PM by FlightMaster

I'm not even acknowledging what you wrote about the Don's death since that is far and away from what I'm saying.

Yuri intends to kill Judith after her departure. This is all but stated in his conversation with Karol on Mt. Temza. The reason he doesn't kill her is because he understands her reasoning but at this point Yuri is waist deep in his vigilantism, and he literally talks about how, after the Don's death, he'd been too soft.

Later, with Estelle, it is also made clear that he intends to kill her if he has to in his talk with Ioder in Halure, which is why he ditches the party to do it himself. Then when Estelle is begging him to kill her, he says I'll set you free. What do you think that means in that context? He even talks with Patty about how he'd have done it, but is glad he didn't have to.

'That is far and away what I am saying'. Thank goodness. It was a misunderstanding, then.

This is where I get confused. I beat the game ages ago at a friend's and I am working off memory regarding scenes and quotes. I NEVER thought Yuri would consider killing a friend, even if they wronged him. And I took the 'been too soft' quote as 'he thinks being soft is bad', which is OOC as hell for him.

So going alone to kill Estelle is not driven by any blood thirst, but like the Don, meant to be a mercy kill. Now THAT I can see him doing. And of course, his party catches up and stops him from being STUPID, because I forgot this is Vesperia and not Xillia 2 and things would end fine at the end of the day. Of course you are not going to be forced to kill the princess, what SORT of game would be that? (I still applaud Namco for trying in Xillia's sequel)

Man, I was being stupid. That's what bad memory does to you.

EDIT: Guess I am gonna put all my previous post in spoiler tags because I am rightfully ashamed of it. Haven't felt as bad since my times as a (ignorant) Shirley basher.

edited 15th Apr '18 2:38:03 PM by FlightMaster

I took the "been too soft" aspect to mean Yuri recognizing he needed to do what needed to be done, even if he doesn't want to do it. Yuri was not fond of Cumore or Ragou, so there's no hard feelings for him there; he makes his choice that they need to die for the good of others, and he does them in. When the Don needs a second, no one is able to bring themselves to do it, so Yuri steps up because that's what the Don needs in this moment. With Judith, he's ready to kill her if need be but understands her reasons and is willing to welcome her back.

With Estelle it's similar; he goes off on his own to kill her so the others don't have to do it, and the primary change in this case is that Repede recognizes Yuri's doing some dumb shit and brings the gang together, who give Yuri a wallop for running off and then figure out a plan where Estelle doesn't have to die.

I mean, they figure out a plan at the last minute.

Anyway I did the Necropolis of Nostalgia and got Flynn permanently now. Just gotta find some Fell Arms and do some remaining sidequests.

The costumes in this game are pretty tough to get.

This talk makes me think Yuri is kind of an asshole

He kind of is, tbh

Yuri would come off as a lot more of an asshole if his targets didn't tend to be Complete Monsters.

Also, I think the fact that Yuri didn't kill Raven despite having good reason to is a lot more telling of his character than the fact that he was prepared to kill Estelle if there was no other way to save the world.

edited 16th Apr '18 8:59:11 AM by PhiSat

Why are all of Rita's costumes so fetishistic

Girl is fifteen. It's fucking weird.

I know it's my fault for spending 900,000 gald to do the sidequest, but why does every Tales game need a goddamn hot spring with the same goddamn peeping joke.

So the deeper I get into Act 3, the more I realize it's not as bad as I said. Sure the Green Aesop takes precedence, but it's so fantastical that it doesn't annoy me the way, say, Chrono Cross did, where it yells about how humans are destroying the environment in their harmonious tropical archipelago while Dwarves drive tanks around, and the actual main theme of the game, of justice coming about by people working together, is exemplified when the entire world scrambles to achieve unity while Duke sits in his tower angsting.

edited 16th Apr '18 3:06:31 PM by Mr.Badguy

.*Ahem* Why are all of Elize's costumes so fetishistic?

Girl is only twelve. It's even weirder!

Now seriously, the alt costume discussion is a hairy matter. Elly has a set of costumes that while DLC only, are fetishistic as hell. Her default goes for the Gothic Lolita crowd, her Xillia 2 one goes for the Schoolgirl approach, hers from the 'Sport Set' is a gymnast ballerina... and to say nothing of her Maid outfit, her Cameo (Mint, a poke at Hello Nurse) or the one posted a few pages ago...

360 Vesperia only has the pretty tame Spa Resort set, but Ves P S3ria adds an actual Swimsuit Set, which shows a LOT of skin on all girls except Patty, who wears a summer dress + straw hat, but has the Unfortunate Implications of her Going Commando.

(Weirder still, I must remember the scene where our heroes distract a guard with the 'Sexy' set of costumes. Yuri is all 'Judy, your [default] clothes were enough for the job', and she answers 'Oh, not at all, my honor would not allow me'. Seems like a case of Honor Before Reason, yet remember that her 'default' clothes is the Myorzo Knights' uniform for ladies. Minus the cape and helmet since she lost them.)

About the peeping tom scene... well, it's like asking why do the series has the Sorcerer Ring, the Traitor character, the skits or the cameo battle. It would not be the Tales Series otherwise.

Hey, about Traitors... do people think they get off lightly? In Raven's case, you kick his ass in a boss battle (not all of them openly give you the chance) and then puts a knife in Yuri's hand and says 'do whatever you want'. This level of regret is usually unheard off. Shall we recount what happens with every Traitor?

(And then... the scene I loved rewatching for my Abridged Series fanfic:)

.*Narrator voice* They all took turns and punched the old man in the face. Even the pirate girl. Even the DOG. And then he was forgiven.

edited 17th Apr '18 2:29:59 AM by FlightMaster

Well, Raven went into that battle wanting to die (since he'd been revived against his will and all that).

why is vesperia making me play snakes & ladders

I've fully explored the last dungeon and have done 60 million damage but the guy isn't showing up so looks like I can't get Rita's only good costume.

God I can't believe I'm over 60 hours in. And I still have the coliseum and bonus dungeons to do.

edited 17th Apr '18 10:36:34 PM by Mr.Badguy

About Rita: recheck your facts. It also happened to friend and I. The key was completing a sidequest that, due to its lenght and tediousness, we still hadn't completed. Then the 'guy' will appear.

Okay, I'd like to be serious for a sec. *spotlight moves* Really. *spotlight moves again* THIS ISNT THE SPOTLIGHT GAG!

Well. I was wandering through the What An Idiot page and came upon one entry from the Tales Series, specifically Symphonia, that I consider flawed if not FALSE.

First thing, that last 1/3 of plot was spent looking for a cure for Colette's toxicosis. It's only after they beat Origin and he tells the party of the elf-blood requisite that they start the Loophole Abuse so Lloyd can use the sword. Then we get into the Magic A Is Magic A territory.

• Artes with cast time =/= magic. Sheena's chinese-charm based monsters and the 'seals' that form her moveset work on an unexplained, ancient and different-from-elf-magic bases. Lets call them 'ninjutsu'. This rules booby ninja out. BUT SPIRITS! I hear you say. Klarth would prove centuries later that Summoning is the only way for complete humans to harness the Spirits' power.
• Angelic artes =/= magic. Colette is completely human yet can use Angelic artes, that's because they come included within the Cruxis Crystal's perks and only need the incantation and MP (mental energy) to cast. Losing the crystal means losing the artes. Think of them as... the Swordians.
• Healing artes =/= magic. Mint would show, again centuries later, that a complete human can use healing artes on a mana-less world. Since they don't use mana they don't count as elf magic. You need to train your mind to pull them off, that's why the wise Healers and disciplined Monks ususally know them. Lloyd and Presea can't because Idiot Hero and Emotionless Girl.
• Even with all that, magic =/= elf blood. Kratos and Zelos CAN use elf magic, yet they don't have a speck of elf blood (Zelos' claim was false, said at a point when he was considering betraying you.) What lets them use magic is the Aionis ore causing cell mutation to give them a skill (sense and manipulate mana) that elves have naturally. (Is the Aionis radioactive? Can elves use magic because Derris Kharlan is full of Magic Rocks and the ability became ingrained in their DNA?)

At the end of the day, it seems like the Aionis-made ring causes Lloyd enough of a mutation in his blood (his Angelus exphere may hace accelerated it?) and the sacred wood enough of a tribute to the Supreme Spirit to make Origin be all 'okay, f*ck it, you CAN use the sword'.

What do you think? Should that What An Idiot entry be removed or changed?

edited 18th Apr '18 3:33:10 AM by FlightMaster

Just remove it.

Is it... that easy?

I thought any change to a wiki entry should be done after a long and convoluted discussion on its forum topic about why it should be kept or deleted, you know, to avoid Edit Wars.

Okay, deleted.

Also, added a few entries to the page. About Zelos forcing you to go to one of the worst dungeons in the game instead of waiting till morning to enter Meltokyo... Emil's idiocy at listening to a petition coming from ALICE of all people... and one from Vesperia, when the Myorzo sages basically render Judy's mission of breaking the Hermes blastia null and void after explaining what exactly makes an Hermes blastia be what it is.

Apparently I have to do the Guild Quest to proc the mage to appear in Halure for Rita's Seeker title, which I'm not doing since it requires cooking. Plus I'm not in the mood to grind materials to develop Aurnion so that's some other sidequests I'm ignoring.

If I had one criticism for this game, it would be that the sidequests are a tangled mess of timed access.

Turns out I'm sad enough to waste my time doing the guild quest for Rita's Seeker costume. I went through a lot of effort to get this game so I figure I should spend as much time with it as I can.

Developed Aurnion too. What am I doing with my life?

yaaaaay stunlocks in the coliseum

karol you fucking traitor (raven too but yknow, raven)

Clint kind of sucks. It's fine that he can do Fatal Strikes but them being an instakill, for mutliple characters if he's doing his Mystic Arte, is kind of BS.

I'm not sure if I want to do the 100/200 Man and Team tournaments since it's going to take patience and grinding. Maybe I should just leave it for my second playthrough, or at least fight Kratos.

It's not that I want the game to end, far from it; this is the most fun I've had with an RPG in forever. It's just that I don't know if I feel like grinding away at all the bonus content like the Cameo Team and Spiral Draco.

Yeah turns out to unlock 200 Man Melee you have to beat 100 Man with three characters and I only know how to play Yuri, so I think I'll just beat Duke and maybe Kratos.

Oh dear collecting the Fell Arms was a bad idea.

Radiant Winged One is cheap bullshit.

100% of my missed Fatal Strikes are due to the animations lasting a thousand years.

A final boss should be hard. It should not auto guard every single attack, teleport, repeatedly spam a move that reduces your HP to one, instacast magic, stop time, warp out of attacks, do an entire healthbar of damage, and cause status effects all at the same fucking time. It can be several of those things but not all of them.

Estelle has the uncanny ability to heal my status effects after I used a goddamn item on them.

God, fuck that fight. I don't even want to do the extra dungeons anymore. I'll do them next time I play the game. That fight seriously just killed any enthusiasm I could possibly have to continue.

I'll do a less whiny retrospective of my playthrough after the credits roll.

I like how Patty wasn't drawn into the credits scenes with the rest of the team so she's just been abandoned by her friends and goes off to sea by herself again.

edited 18th Apr '18 4:44:31 PM by Mr.Badguy

So, I played for four hours on Vesperia. Longer than what I normally play. In this time, I managed to change both Pharaoh and Khroma into spirits(Khroma's boss fight was tough, but I managed to win), I managed to do more of the coliseum battles, and I also hunted down some of the Giganto monsters. I have 38 hours so far.

edited 18th Apr '18 4:52:01 PM by pointless233

Guess Patty wasn't important enough to Yuri or everyone else after all.

Every single interaction she had with the party was basically "and what about you, Patty? You still need to find your treasure." I actually like her as a character and for her weird fighting style but she's pretty tacked on.

So, I'm currently at Tarqaron in Tales of Vesperia. Before that, I went to Nam Cobanda Isle, did a few side quests and fought Flynn at Aurnion(and lost). I just beat Zagi for the final time. R.I.P you crazy bastard. I wanted to use my Mystic Arte against him but I never got the chance. Anyways, I have almost 41 hours on the game and I'm approaching the end.

edited 20th Apr '18 6:53:48 AM by pointless233