Watched/Expected/Got

Hey, the Army scene itself looked pretty good.

I really have to wonder about all the people using Sailor Moon and other non-Madoka magical girl shows in the Expected slot, as if those shows aren't gut-wrenchingly brutal from time to time. Hell, from what I hear the first death in Madoka crops up before you've had even five episodes to get to know the girl; how does that have as much emotional impact as the D-Point incident?

Well, that also depends on the version; the first season of Sailor Moon's U.S. version cut out character deaths, I think.

edited 10th Dec '11 8:32:28 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

They're less of Crapsack Worlds, though. Wasn't Madoka Magica the first magical girl series to also essentially be a Cosmic Horror Story?

Which is why it hurts so much to watch; in a crapsack world there's no incentive to care about anyone unless the writing is absolutely stellar. In a world with hope, you get burned more often.

The dub was bad enough, where you knew they'd died even if you didn't get to see it, but I just watched the original recently and it fuckin' wrecked me. I knew intellectually they'd be up and about next season, because obviously I've seen the second season, but Jesus.

edited 10th Dec '11 7:41:25 PM by FurikoMaru

Crapsack World does not equal Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy...

edited 10th Dec '11 7:46:00 PM by Excelion

It does in me, about 8 times out of 10.

Because Madoka took each archetypal Magical Girl and broke her utterly and completely before killing her, making their sacrifices meaningless.

edited 10th Dec '11 7:58:52 PM by Sackett

Out of curiosity, have you watched Madoka?

Just discovered this thread, and immediately remembered the Watched/Expected/Got for Bible Black (which used to be the page image for Hentai.) It's not under the image list with the words "bible," watched," or "expected"—does anyone have a guess as to what it might have been called?

(First panel was the show's title, second was Jesus as a black guy, and third was a girl sucking on a banana.)

edited 10th Dec '11 8:06:39 PM by feotakahari

Madoka was not as surprising as everyone seems to think it is. I dunno, just knowing the writer let me predict the basics of the plot.

I'd think you need to look from the eyes of the general public, since I literally had not heard of the writer until everyone made such a big deal of him.

^^^^ No, I'm not really interested.

It doesn't make sense to comment on the emotional impact of a death in a show you haven't watched. How would you know if you haven't seen it?

I think having more time for character establishment and development in Madoka would have been a good idea, but then it's not that kind of show.

And there's plenty of time for Break the Cutie.

I found it a little difficult to even dislike the Madoka characters. The plot didn't really contain any surprises for me, either, once the 'How will things become more angsty' realization set in. Which was quite early.

Complaining About Shows You Don't Watch? Oh, come on, Furiko, I know you're better than that.

edited 10th Dec '11 9:54:44 PM by Sporkaganza

I got one for you guys.

Gosick◊

Um, but the fact that she's a detective is right in the premise?????

I'm not complaining, I'm asking a question, prompted by mild irritation at the apparently popular conception of Sailor Moon as a bubbly funtime fountain.

What do you mean by better, incidentally? I'm not going to watch things that don't look interesting just so I can get a bitching-about-them certificate.

edited 10th Dec '11 10:41:10 PM by FurikoMaru

I didn't realize that when I watched it. Or at least not that it would live up to it.

Furiko, I'm not going to go into the whole big rant, since this isn't really the thread for it, but let me just say that I support your decision to not watch Madoka. My anime club made me watch it when I don't like magical girl shows in the first place, and not walking out now ranks among my dumbest decisions. There's virtually nothing to care about in this show, there's almost no real plot apart from characters crying about something or other, and you can't help but hear the creator saying, with a completely serious tone of voice, how much better off everything is this way.

There's a Watched/Expected/Got in this somewhere, but I feel like making it would have people clawing at my throats.

edited 11th Dec '11 3:27:43 AM by ShotgunNinja

Do it. It'd amuse me at least.

Point is, I don't know why the Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism should affect how much you care about characters. That's like saying none of the deaths in Legend Of Galactic Heroes are emotionally powerful just because everyone dies.

edited 11th Dec '11 4:53:30 AM by Excelion

The point is Furiko that it's hard to claim that Sailor Moon and Madoka Magica are equally dark when you haven't watched one of them.

It's only 12 episodes, so why don't you just watch it?

Then you can make more authoritative comments on it.

My view on the matter is that Sailor Moon is similar to Fullmetal Alchemist in the levels of "darkness". They both have some very dark elements but also have the standard traditional framework of a hero's journey that fits them in with the more upbeat, hero will triumph kind of story. Hope is with you during the whole journey.

Madoka Magica is more like Neon Genesis Evangelion. The Hero's Journey is subverted. The story become more and more dark as the story examines why things suck rather then having the hero generally triumph. Hope is continually crushed. Then at the end comes transcendence. Hope is reborn in the midst of hopelessness.

Though Fullmetal Alchemist and Neon Genesis Evangelion actually do treat many of the same themes the method they do so is so profoundly different that the effect on the audience is different.

Sailor Moon and Madoka Magica are different in the same way.

Or to use Booker's The Sevenbasic Plots:

Sailor Moon is an Overcoming The Monster story, Madoka Magica is a Rebirth story.

edited 11th Dec '11 10:24:41 AM by Sackett