Professional Wrestling

I really dislike the term "IWC". By using a forum on the world wide web to discuss pro wrestling we are, by definition, part of the internet wrestling community...in the most literal sense. It's not like this community has laws, codes, regulations. It's not even something I consciously think of until someone posts the letters, or more rarely, types it out.

What really turned me off from WWE was the shilling of the twitter, a service that makes use of the internet, asking fans to vote on the stupid NXT contest on their website, which can only be connected by using the internet, and then Michael Cole asking us internet nerds how voting for Kaval worked out. Fucking hypocrite! Yeah, there was more than that. The product wasn't that strong, you had the WWE "comedy", dozens of more glaring problems, but that was when I realized watching their shows had become more of a chore than a hobby. Watching "Kaval" have much better matches in New Japan takes up enough time already, why not just use the internet to read the results of the WWE events, stay caught up but not have to sit through anything I don't want to see?

Of course the answer to that question was Tyler Black. Finally "called him up", giving him a strong start, undefeated trio in body armor. But then that petered out sometime in 2013. The Shield's "undefeated streak" quickly became a joke when they took a 3 on 1 disqualification loss to John Cena but EvilDrBolty is letting us know how great things are going to be when Danielson gets the belt, even though they weren't last time... and The Shield servants to Triple H trying to stop Danielson from becoming "face of the company". Don't even really recall exactly when that started or how long I peaked at it but I know it was sometime in 2013 I decided I was using the internet to pursue pro wrestling I was more likely to enjoy. IPPV was starting to smooth out anyway (unless you were Preston City, apparently)

I've talked about NOAH's slump before. WWE has never had a monopoly on mediocrity or disappointment. But if NOAH was telling me "Eddie Edwards is a rookie, you internet fools are foolish for liking him, so follow us on Twitter", then at least it was in a language I'm far less fluent in.

What do you have against IWC?

Thoughts on the Sexy Star / Rosemary situation? Right now, people in and out of the wrestling community are pretty much aligned against Star, the whole "being in the ring requires being able to trust your opponent" thing. I've seen a few others point out that there might be history between the two, which might make it more like the situation where the veterans used to "stretch" or "potato" an opponent that they had a beef with, often due to bad behavior in or out of the ring.

Rosemary's comments and Sexy Star's.

This still sounds like something that would business as usual in the men's division. I mean, just look at what Vader did back in the day, or Earthquake vs Kitao.

Maybe it is a storyline, maybe it isn't. Quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if some fed somewhere is now using social media and interviews on the dirtsheets to work the fans. I know if I were a promoter I would. Raven once said "The smarks are the easiest fans to work because they think they know what's real."

Fuck Sexy Star. Anyone who tries to legitimately injure someone is a piece of shit and she wasn't even that good to begin with.

@Kevin Nash fandom: I can sorta see it. Not my cup for promos but he seems good.

@Vince Mc Mahon House of Pain being progressive: I don't think the guy who is best friends with Donald "We should build a wall" Trump is ever gonna be on the cutting edge of social change. Business change maybe, (Vince is a good businessman, or was back in the 80s). That would require a real challenge, and a CM Punk figure only comes along maybe once a decade. Until a gay character is portrayed well I'd hold off on that.

Well, she wasn't the first person Star has shot on in Triple A, but it's not exactly the sort of thing the company needed. Worked shoots are bad enough, trying to get fans invested in a worked shoot angle that very well may continue to the end of the year at this point while actual shoots are happening is just dumb, in my opinion. Even if this was/is a work, running two such worked shoots at once is dumb, in my opinion. Triple A sometimes resembles Vince Russo's WCW, in my opinion.(but they make a lot more money, or at least lose a lot less of it than Russo's WCW so they're clearly doing something right. I think it's called The Psycho Circus)

Cody is a high demand free agent part of pro wrestling's most popular stable. That's bad news for Star if promoters have to choose between her and him. So for her sake, it should be a work, but hey, in this post Lebel Pancrase day and age of BJJ being accepted by pro wrestlers, with Riddle in EVOLVE, I'd like to think Cody would be able to identify a proper juji gatame. Still, I can't think of any locker rooms they're on an immediate road to sharing. Now, as some of you may recall, Star isn't that far removed from retirement, and her career was revived in SHIMMER. Rosemary is one of their staples, so Dulce might not be welcome back there. For that matter, Rosemary is one third of GFW's most popular acts. Johnny Mundo is doing double duty between the two promotions but if GFW takes in anyone else from AAA it might not be Star. You know, if it's not a work. Cody has played along with a "worked shoot" before, but last time was much more tongue in cheek than a refusal to work due to someone's dislocated shoulder.

I'm kind of confused as to why. I get Shani, but these two haven't even been on the same SHIMMER volume. Regardless, I think the locker room would have been a better place for Star to take out her issues, and really, that she could have called Rosemary behind a building or raised a word with whoever AAA's talent relations are(assuming it really isn't Vampiro) rather than doing something public, much less potentially disrupting to one of Mexico's biggest shows. But Yoshiko's pro wrestling career endured her doing much worse(qualitatively, if not quantitatively), and she's not as big a star as Star. It's definitely been crippled, Yoshiko had the potential to be as big as Star is, her company, which is now split in two, might be better off if she showed more restraint, but World Tiger #4 is still around. I'm pretty sure Dulce will be around for awhile. And if this is a work, then I think Rosemary's kind of silly, but if she wants to risk injury, I guess that's nothing new for a wrestler.

AAA got me once, Mundo's not leaving, he's not even dropping his belts. Sure, it doesn't change the fact they're just reminding us all they couldn't give Valkyrie a good sendoff or anything but sure fooled me! Hell, if the unmasking, retirement, risking injury in real fights, debut in SHIMMER and tradition pissing on return were all a work and it still doesn't change that crap with the Reina de Reinas. Like, AAA can't get people invested in angles anymore or get any good PR if they're jobs depended on it, so they just purposefully promote themselves as one big rolling cluster fuck people flee to the independent circuit from? It doesn't make much sense, I'm only considering it may be a work is because AAA's done it once before(and Russo's done it in three other companies), and given the information we have nothing makes any more sense if it's not a work. I'm glad the only matches I was watching this year's Triplemania for were the main event and the match right before it. That I haven't really been putting much thought into the rest of the show or AAA in general until today when Fuzzy Boots asked(be afraid, Matt Taven looks like he may achieve something resembling success in CMLL). But yes, now that I think about, those are my opinions.

edited 31st Aug '17 6:25:31 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

Sexy Star's story is now that she didn't think Rosemary was injured, and did not act injured, until she was confronted.

"I'm the real victim! None of you were there, despite all of the video evidence of the act! She was walking around, and everyone knows you need your shoulder to walk."

On slightly unrelated topic, I get tickled thinking back to Rosemary's days as the dominant suplex queen(I never bought it, she had the physique but not the size or intensity), then the perky Michael Jackson fan(that's when we all thought she finally found a niche), then she was a demon possessed stalker(I get she was angry with Cherry Bomb but that was still out of left field).

Kind of surprised now she's just now popping up in AAA. Both the dancing and demon gimmicks seem perfect for them. I guess she wasn't right for Legion Extranhera or Sociedad but once those had run their course? Too many Canadians already?

Back on the topic of wrestlers who kept getting work after shooting on someone during a match, I still can't think of any examples whose careers didn't suffer for it. Akira Maeda did very well as a promoter, but does anyone know anything he did as a wrestler after shooting on Tiger Mask? The most extreme that comes to mind is New Jack, and I don't think Star's bookings will ever become as limited as his, but that was a pretty incredible fall from grace...Bob Holly, who I've become increasingly convinced was nowhere near as bad as some reports made him out to be, nonetheless did himself no favor beating up on Cappotelli.

Okay, there are some cases where a wrestler is rewarded for shooting on someone, "hookers" have been around for quite awhile, but the difference there is that hookers are instructed by the promoter, such as when Naoya Ogawa beat up Shinya Hashimoto or when Kurt Angle broke that guy's ribs in Tough Enough. Or at least had permission from the promoter, or were partial owners of the company like Inoki or Takahashi. I guess Big Show and Umaga have popped guys too, but in those cases their "opponents" were not selling, thus were already ruining the match and probably shouldn't have been in the ring in the first place.

None of those factors are in place here, and with another week without a wink or "gotcha" it's not looking too good for Star. I really don't get why she couldn't wait to get to the locker room or behind a building. That's how Juventud and Jack Evans did it. When you look at most of the "successful" troublemakers most of them acted outside of matches, away from audiences and cameras.(there are still plenty brought down that way, like Teddy Hart, but between Bruiser Brody, Booker T, Batista, CM Punk, Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner, Shawn Michaels, it seems private is much safer than public)

I've stumbled upon WWE fanfics that are structured just like an official WWE product: mimicking the announce team's cadences/namedrops, mentioning the WWE Network/reporting "breaking news", even the "Earlier Today" segments. I have never, and I mean, ''ever'' read fanfics that have made me laugh so hard.

A guy named "Hug Life" from the Wrestling Clique forums has been writing out entire fantasy Raw and SD episodes, alongside fantasy PP Vs:

http://wrestlingclique.com/showthread.php?t=161883&page=8 http://wrestlingclique.com/showthread.php?t=161883&page=12

Additionally, I found another fanfic from Writerscafe.org that is laid out in the style of a Raw episode:

http://www.writerscafe.org/writing/LordSteven/1500854/

So, IIL that, WEWIL?

edited 11th Sep '17 7:04:46 PM by 773202luna

Bobby "the Brain" Heenan died at 74.

A friend posted some choice quotes:

Bobby Heenan is an iconic manager and commentator, I know his work well, but I have a confession to make; I don't think I've ever watched any of his matches as a wrestler. I suppose now would be as good as time as any to start, if I knew where to look...I suppose some AWA tapes exist?

Pro wrestling fan fic? Haven't read much of it, outside of E Feds and Video Game CAW anyway. I do remember one back in 2003/4 where Sick Nick Mondo, Michael Shane and AJ Styles were part of WWE, Goldberg was a heel and the plot centered around the road to Wrestlemania XX. It's pretty funny to think back on, considering Goldberg had one of the worst Wrestlemania matches on that card and Styles is part of WWE now.

I also remember one where The Ginyu Force from Dragon Ball were the general managers after retiring from the ring, not facing any real challenges, BB Hood was cheating champion with her own power stable who was dethroned by Inuyasha and Superman was The Big Bad.

As for E feds, I recommend Territory Wars, I guess. It's the only one I think is still up that I know of. I found the one where Antonio Inoki took over ROH and reversed its gender roles on the theory he could save money because women don't ask for as much money only for two more nails to be driven into the company as the TNA Knockouts basically did everything they could to ruin while ROH's competitors didn't relent on poaching talent and invading its shows(and not just physically, as the WWF ran a clip of CM Punk as its champion during an ROH pay per view). As for CAW, NO DQ is what made it a fad, CCW is the closets it has to a successor and "Video Game Championship Wrestling" seems to be popular on twitch(?), or at least with a few users on this site.

Apparently, WWE is reviving the Starrcade name for some reason. It's going to be a Smockdown PPV event in November. The only connection I can see to the original WCW event is that it is going to be performed at Greensboro Coliseum Complex where the first four Starrcades were held.

Rest in peace Bobby. You won't ever be forgotten.

A couple of things that bugged me from last night's promos on Smackdown:

1. Was Kevin Owens' personality always supposed to be "abusive husband"? Or was that just then?
2. There's plenty ways to make Jinder a hypocrite without going full racist and incredibly tone deaf to the times.
3. Ziggler's angle is really stupid. Especially in the weeks where he mocks people who can actually wrestle. It made me stop caring before he started, even though he had a point about Hunter's politicking.

After listening to the audiobook of The Death Of WCW, I imagine Vince Russo’s time at the company was like trying to watch a wrestling match with an obnoxious Smart Mark who keeps making inside jokes and continually elbows you in the ribs while asking “Huh? Huh? Did you get it, bro?”

edited 30th Jan '18 4:16:18 PM by DS9guy

As somebody who was watching WCW at the time I'd say that's pretty much about the gyst of it.

Wow.

For a guy named Amore, Enzo sure isn't well loved.

I missed Raw, but basically, Enzo's win is pretty much the nail in the coffin of the cruiserweight division.

Ouch. That's sad to hear. I've liked 205 Live.

Maybe they can bounce back from this.

Edit: Just saw this.

Wow. Does Enzo have some major backstage heat or something? First he gets destroyed by Neville, then Braun Strauman comes out of nowhere to attack him again, and then he gets massacred by the rest of the cruiserweights.

If I hated him, I'd still think it was quite a lot to take in.

edited 26th Sep '17 10:14:35 AM by HandsomeRob

Yes, he does have heat.

I always find it odd when babyfaces get involved in beatdowns like this, because even against a heel, it's vindictive and excessive behaviour.

I mean, it's not a nail in the coffin in the Cruiserweight division gets a main event segment that helps all of the other cruiserweights get over.

Man, I wonder what he did.

And I agree about it being real excessive for even the faces to join in on this. To say nothing of Mustafa Ali convincing Drew Gulak (who he'd been feuding with not too long ago) to let him go off the top.

I mean, guys like Cedric, Rich and Mustafa would have been against stuff like this normally, so it's a little weird to see them all get behind this, even if Enzo is an ass.

And as annoying as the guy is, he was recently betrayed by his years long best friend, and now this happens. It seems like not only kicking a guy when he's down, but kicking off a cliff while he's trying to climb back up.

I don't even like Enzo that much either. That's how much this bothers me. I mean, is he a heel now or something?

edited 26th Sep '17 11:50:42 AM by HandsomeRob