Rebuild of Evangelion

I'll confess I kind of wonder if some source isn't just making up these -dere labels out of whole cloth and waiting to see what catches on.

Is there a trope for that P-Zombie thingy, anyway? 'Cause I know at least one perfect example.

How can you? The whole point of a philosophical zombie is that it behaves exactly as if it had consciousness and such, even when nobody's looking. Hell, I can't prove to you that I'm not one. It's a mind/brain thing.

Oh, I thought it had to be revealed at some point. You're right of course.

But I still think a trope for characters who are devoid of emotions yet act as if they have them has to be made.

@Shay Guy: Ah. I see. Doesn't change my opinion of her; not understanding one's emotions is almost as sad as not having them. I would like to see a human character have their feelings taken from them without it being a way to 'make them a more effective killer'; I'm sure that was part of Gendou's reasoning for isolating her, but I think it was primarily to make her just easier to deal with and to ensure that she'd actually go through with Instrumentality in the way he wanted.

@Glenn: I mostly saw the Angels as MacGuffins. All they really did was make for cool action sequences and let you know there was something of interest within the Geofront.

But Lillith is the mother of humanity in Eva; why wouldn't she understand emotion? And if you had no friends but a bitter old man who sees either his wife or his tool every time he looks at you, I'm pretty sure you'd be a nihilist, too.

Maybe this is as good a place as any to dump my theory, apropos of nothing within this conversation, that Kaworu's revelation was of the You Are The Demons sort, and the creature they call Lillith and the creature we call Adam are actually the same being, and we've all been adversaries this whole time for nothing.

Kuudere are the healthiest because, as a tsundere, I can assure you that humans are not supposed to be like this. This mindset is a reaction to less than ideal circumstances, not a cute personality quirk; I'll never be able to relate to people I care for outside my family in a rational and well-adjusted way. I've tried. I can't do it; I am honestly completely uncomfortable around colleagues when I'm not being sarcastic or violent or domineering or at the very least teasing. It's not just a 'romantic feelings = omg HIDE!' thing with me, it applies to all positive emotions; I don't feel like I can be honest about them without becoming either a pitiful and annoying wretch or a yandere. And that isn't, well, healthy.

Hmmm, would that make me a deconstruction, then? There's nothing cute about this kind of tsundere, after all (most people around here appear to have missed the point, though).

edited 30th Jun '09 12:24:53 PM by FurikoMaru

Isn't Lilith technically one of the angels anyway?

Or considered to be the second Angel? At least, I know that's the case; whether or not it's at all biologically (or psychologically or spiritually) similar to angels 3 through 17 is another thing that I'm not sure of.

The definition of "Angel" is a little unclear, and it's a term the humans thought up anyway. Humanity comes from Lilith, the kaiju things come from Adam, and Adam and Lilith were both made by the First Ancestral Race.

What is "kaiju"?

Smokie wrote:

But I still think a trope for characters who are devoid of emotions yet act as if they have them has to be made.

Like Stepford Smiler ?

Glenn Magus Harvey wrote:

What is "kaiju"?

Kaiju are strange beasts/monsters like King Kong and Godzilla.

edited 30th Jun '09 1:31:18 PM by Ready_Man

No, the Stepford Smiler projects happiness all the time when they really aren't. They can, and most examples do, have other emotions (Depression, dissapointment, depression, lack of self-esteem, depression...) P-Zombies don't have any emotions or sentience at all.

Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep touches on the subject though.

Now for the tough question: what happens to the character page with this new Rebuild stuff?

Subdivide each character spot into main continuity and Rebuild continuity segments.

...So you guys don't like Rebuild then?

I couldn't tell in all the dere discussions.

It still hasn't officially left Japan yet.

...I'm not sure what you mean by that.

We haven't seen 2.0 yet.

Oops.

edited 30th Jun '09 4:46:48 PM by Charlatan

I am at this moment biting my lip as so not to release a Big "NO!" and disturb my family because of what I know is about to happen to Toji. How dark this series got starting at episode 16 took even me by surprise. So mean!

I'd recommend creating a new page for this alternate continuity, with it's own character page. While the TV series had... an unspecified number of endings, it had 24 episodes of shared continuity. Rebuild has a completely new continuity with revised characters, new characters, rewritten plots, etc. so I think a new page is in order to avoid cluttering and confusing entries on the main NGE page.

I already knew what a pzombie was, sorta, but I'm not very well-informed about anything, so I didn't really get the opposite thing. Nornagest's explanation made sense, though.

As for Rei, she crept me out because most of the Eva characters are similar to facets of my personality in some way, and I don't like it when I suppress my emotions. Even though that's not what she did, emotionlessness bothers me. When she starts showing emotion near the end it's too little too late, even though I want to empathize I can't.

edited 1st Jul '09 9:34:11 AM by Tzetze

I must say that I also found Rei creepy, but I also found her very appealing, for some reason.

Mmmmmmm, Uncanny Valley...

I'm pretty sure that Rei is the only character that has ever been in the Uncanny Valley for me. I'd rather watch bad CGI puppet zombies than that girl.

Rei never creeped me out. That being said, I haven't watched End Of Evangelion. (Maybe I should do that already..)

I found her too loaded with Fetish Fuel and it looked like she tried to be moe. But maybe that's because I didn't watch it when Rei was something original.

Smokie: EOE may creep you out, period, without even needing any particular character to do it.

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Also, I agree approximately with Tzetze's take on Rei being creepy, especially in contrast with other characters seeming "human".

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AFGNCAAP: Do the events of episode 18 transpire in episode 16 in Rebuild?

I wouldn't know; I know nothing about Rebuild, but from what I've seen, Rebuild isn't divided into episodes that way.

Then what were you referring to at episode 16?

(Spoiler tags please.)