History Main / OutdatedHeroVsImprovedSociety

[[folder:Comic books]]

* Observe the RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment. [[note]]No matter ''what'' the characters, setting or narrative says, any societal changes that involve ethical or human rights violations ''as established by modern standards'' (ecological damage, slavery, abuse, bigotry, lower "quality of life", etc.) should be considered an automatic "downside" and thus disqualified.[[/note]]

* In ''Film/DemolitionMan'', one of the main plot points is LAPD CowboyCop John Spartan (a WalkingDisasterArea even when he didn't wanted to, hence the titular nickname) clashing heavily with the futuristic society of San Angeles, which is nonviolent and [[PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad politically correct to the point of absurdity,]] after being released from CryoPrison. It is easy to see which members of San Angeles society (like Huxley) are meant to be seen as sympathetic because they are the ones who ''don't'' insult Spartan with epithets like "Neanderthal" every time they open their mouths.

->'''John Spartan''': I don’t know—[[IllTakeThatAsACompliment thanks?]]

* In ''Series/BlueBloods'' there's a recurring theme of how being a CowboyCop was a lot more accepted when Grandpa Henry was on the force than it is now: the streets of New York were rougher and there weren't any cell phone cameras. In one episode, there's a threat to an officer from organized crime, and Henry remarks to an old friend about how in a similar situation when he was police commissioner, he sent the boys in blue out to crack heads until somebody coughed up a name. This then shows up on Website/YouTube as [[MaliciousEditing Henry admitting to]] PoliceBrutality. [[spoiler:It's revealed later that Henry was being a PapaWolf: the officer in danger was his son Frank Reagan, the current PC.]]

* In ''Series/BlueBloods'' there's a recurring theme of how being a CowboyCop was a lot more accepted when Grandpa Henry was on the force than it is now: the streets of New York were rougher and there weren't any cell phone cameras. In one episode there's a threat to an officer from organized crime, and Henry remarks to an old friend about how in a similar situation when he was police commissioner, he sent the boys in blue out to crack heads until somebody coughed up a name. This then shows up on Website/YouTube as Henry admitting to PoliceBrutality. [[spoiler:It's revealed later that Henry was being a PapaWolf: the officer in danger was his son Frank Reagan, the current PC.]]

* In ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins'', Teyrn Loghain Mac Tir's worldview is stuck in the time of the Orlesian occupation of his country, so he considers a handful of Orlesian [[ImpartialPurposeDrivenFaction Grey Wardens]] and [[spoiler:the possibility of King Cailan divorcing Loghain's daughter and marrying the Orlesian Empress instead]] a much bigger threat to Ferelden than, say, an endless horde of AlwaysChaoticEvil monsters who spread ThePlague and are led by a giant unkillable {{Dracolich}} from the underworld. This ultimately makes him the secondary BigBad of the story, after said demon itself.

* ''Franchise/CaptainAmerica'': PlayedWith, because in his case society may have improved, but the government running it hasn't. While he laments some things he did during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, he remained TheCape and fought for what he understood to be good in accordance to contemporary values. Helping matters was the fact that, during his day, America was an isolationist country and not quite the HegemonicEmpire it became during the UsefulNotes/ColdWar. During comic book arcs that were published during TheSixties, TheSeventies and TheEighties, a lot of angst was tossed his way because certain things like UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar and a lot of corrupt government officials generated an extreme (InUniverse and out) hatred for "TheMan" and anything that represented him (like Cap). In nearly all portrayals of the character, Cap reaches a point where he realizes that his country isn't merely defending the world from evil, but has in its own its way become the problem. DependingOnTheWriter, his stories either take a GrayingMorality bent, whereas Cap is OnlySaneMan, or ''this'' trope, whereupon Cap realizes that he ''is'' on the wrong side. But really it depends on [[WriterOnBoard what point that particular writer wants to make.]]

->'''Spartan''': I don’t know—[[IllTakeThatAsACompliment thanks?]]

* Since calling a RealLife person a hero or a villain, and an idea outdated, is very subjective and controversial, NoRealLifeExamplesPlease!

* The BigBad of ''Film/StarTrekBeyond'', Krall [[spoiler:aka Captain Balthazar Edison]], was a former hero of the Romulan and Xindi Wars. When Starfleet was formed and the Federation preferred cooperation between alien species rather than waging wars, [[spoiler: Edison]] found out the hard way that he could not adapt to the new society. That, coupled with [[spoiler:being abandoned[[note]]So he thinks. In reality the Federation simply never received his DistressSignal due to electromagnetic interference.[[/note]] in uncharted territories by the society he once proudly served was the final straw that drove him mad and led him to swear vengeance.]]

* The BigBad of ''Film/StarTrekBeyond'', Krall [[spoiler:aka Captain Balthazar Edison]], was a former hero of the Romulan and Xindi Wars. When Starfleet was formed and the Federation preferred cooperation between alien species rather than waging wars, [[spoiler: Edison]] found out the hard way that he could not adapt to the new society. That, coupled with [[spoiler:being abandoned[[note]]S he thinks. In reality the Federation simply never received his DistressSignal due to electromagnetic interference.[[/note]] in uncharted territories by the society he once proudly served was the final straw that drove him mad and led him to swear vengeance.]]

* The BigBad of ''Film/StarTrekBeyond'', Krall [[spoiler:aka Captain Balthazar Edison]], was a former hero of the Romulan and Xindi Wars. When Starfleet was formed and the Federation preferred cooperation between alien species rather than waging wars, [[spoiler: Edison]] found out the hard way that he could not adapt to the new society. That, coupled with [[spoiler:being abandoned in uncharted territories by the society he once proudly served was the final straw that drove him mad and led him to swear vengeance.]]

* ''Franchise/MetalGear:'' Almost every major BigBad or GreaterScopeVillain in the franchise qualifies for this trope. Part of the conflict of the series revolves around the problem of what becomes of great soldiers once their job is done. For example, many in Army's Heaven, Outer Heaven, Foxhound, and the Patriots are once-heroes who have no idea how to cope with peace.

* SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}}, DependingOnTheWriter, may fit this trope during his StartOfDarkness origins. After surviving horrible atrocities against the worst types of human beings (usually [[UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust Nazi concentration camps]] during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII), the young man who would be Magneto saw similar [[FantasticRacism hate-mongering]] starting to appear against [[WitchSpecies mutants]], which he himself was. At some point, he joined forces with another mutant named Charles Xavier and the two made great achievements protecting and advancing mutantkind. However, Magneto remained convinced that human-mutant coexistence was impossible and that mutants had to eventually take control from humanity. The falling out between himself and Charles and their incompatible ideologies is the impetus for the ''Franchise/XMen'' series. In particular, Creator/GrantMorrison's run on X-Men directly makes the claim that Magneto's contribution to mutantkind is over and that even the mutant populace would rather fondly remember him as an obsolete hero.

[[folder:Live Action films]]
* The BigBad of Film/StarTrekBeyond, Krall [[spoiler: aka Captain Balthazar Edison]], was a former hero of the Romulan and Xindi Wars. When Starfleet was formed and the Federation preferred cooperation between alien species rather than waging wars, [[spoiler: Edison]] found out the hard way that he cannot adapt to the new society. That, coupled with [[spoiler: being abandoned in uncharted territories by the society he once proudly served was the final straw that drove him mad and swore vengeance.]]

* ''Franchise/CaptainAmerica'': PlayedWith, because in his case society may have improved, but the government running it hasn't. While he laments some things he did during WorldWarTwo, he remained TheCape and fought for what he understood to be good in accordance to contemporary values. Helping matters was the fact that, during his day, America was an isolationist country and not quite the HegemonicEmpire it became during the UsefulNotes/ColdWar. During comic book arcs that were published during TheSixties, TheSeventies and TheEighties, a lot of angst was tossed his way because certain things like UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar and a lot of corrupt government officials generated an extreme (InUniverse and out) hatred for "TheMan" and anything that represented him (like Cap). In nearly all portrayals of the character, Cap reaches a point where he realizes that his country isn't merely defending the world from evil, but has in its own its way become the problem. DependingOnTheWriter, his stories either take a GrayingMorality bent, whereas Cap is OnlySaneMan, or ''this'' trope, whereupon Cap realizes that he ''is'' on the wrong side. But really it depends on [[WriterOnBoard what point that particular writer wants to make.]]

* ''Franchise/CaptainAmerica'': PlayedWith, because in his case society may have improved, but the government running it hasn't. While he laments some things he did during WorldWarTwo, he remained TheCape and fought for what he understood to be good in accordance to contemporary values. Helping matters was the fact that, during his day, America was an isolationist country and not quite the HegemonicEmpire it became during the UsefulNotes/ColdWar. During comic book arcs that were published during TheSixties, TheSeventies and TheEighties, a lot of angst was tossed his way because certain things like TheVietnamWar and a lot of corrupt government officials generated an extreme (InUniverse and out) hatred for "TheMan" and anything that represented him (like Cap). In nearly all portrayals of the character, Cap reaches a point where he realizes that his country isn't merely defending the world from evil, but has in its own its way become the problem. DependingOnTheWriter, his stories either take a GrayingMorality bent, whereas Cap is OnlySaneMan, or ''this'' trope, whereupon Cap realizes that he ''is'' on the wrong side. But really it depends on [[WriterOnBoard what point that particular writer wants to make.]]

* ''Franchise/CaptainAmerica'': PlayedWith, because in his case society may have improved, but the government running it hasn't. While he laments some things he did during WorldWarTwo, he remained TheCape and fought for what he understood to be good in accordance to contemporary values. Helping matters was the fact that, during his day, America was an isolationist country and not quite the HegemonicEmpire it became during the ColdWar. During comic book arcs that were published during TheSixties, TheSeventies and TheEighties, a lot of angst was tossed his way because certain things like TheVietnamWar and a lot of corrupt government officials generated an extreme (InUniverse and out) hatred for "TheMan" and anything that represented him (like Cap). In nearly all portrayals of the character, Cap reaches a point where he realizes that his country isn't merely defending the world from evil, but has in its own its way become the problem. DependingOnTheWriter, his stories either take a GrayingMorality bent, whereas Cap is OnlySaneMan, or ''this'' trope, whereupon Cap realizes that he ''is'' on the wrong side. But really it depends on [[WriterOnBoard what point that particular writer wants to make.]]

[[folder:Live Action films]]
* The BigBad of Film/StarTrekBeyond, Krall [[spoiler: aka Captain Balthazar Edison]], was a former hero of the Romulan and Xindi Wars. When Starfleet was formed and the Federation preferred cooperation between alien species rather than waging wars, [[spoiler: Edison]] found out the hard way that he cannot adapt to the new society. That, coupled with [[spoiler: being abandoned in uncharted territories by the society he once proudly served was the final straw that drove him mad and swore vengeance.]]
[[/folder]]

* In the first season of ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'', the [[MugglePower Equalist Movement]] holds this opinion of the Avatar, the one person in the world with the power to [[FullContactMagic bend]] all four elements who is usually also a world-renowned hero (or is destined to be one). Korra, the titular character, is the current living Avatar, and isn't quite fully trained when all this goes down.

* SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}}, DependingOnTheWriter, may fit this trope during his StartOfDarkness origins. After surviving horrible atrocities against the worst types of human beings (usually [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi concentration camps]] during WorldWarII), the young man who would be Magneto saw similar [[FantasticRacism hate-mongering]] starting to appear against [[WitchSpecies mutants]], which he himself was. At some point, he joined forces with another mutant named Charles Xavier and the two made great achievements protecting and advancing mutantkind. However, Magneto remained convinced that human-mutant coexistence was impossible and that mutants had to eventually take control from humanity. The falling out between himself and Charles and their incompatible ideologies is the impetus for the ''Franchise/XMen'' series. In particular, Creator/GrantMorrison's run on X-Men directly makes the claim that Magneto's contribution to mutantkind is over and that even the mutant populace would rather fondly remember him as an obsolete hero.

[[/folder]]

They may become a [[HeelFaceTurn Heel]] or [[TookALevelInJerkass Jerkass]] after SlowlySlippingIntoEvil or suffering MotiveDecay, but they\'re roughly the same as they ever were. It\'s just that, now, their ideologies, goals or methods, which once could have been seen positively, are now widely considered outdated. At best, they\'ve become a PoliticallyIncorrectHero. If they slip further, they can become an AntiHero who opposes TheHero or the BigGood but otherwise has [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]]. However, at their worst, [[ValuesDissonance society has progressed]] so far in morality that now they\'re [[EvilReactionary unambiguously the bad guy]].

The point to this trope is that society has moved on without incident since the hey-day of the FallenHero. In other words, within the work, we see little or no downsides for what the society criticizes the past hero about. Either it has gotten closer to (or actually become) an honest-to-God {{Utopia}}, or the past hero\'s methods simply no longer work.

The setting does not have to be LikeRealityUnlessNoted, but it cannot be {{dystopi|a}}c. If the change is something modern day RealLife considers \"wrong\" (everyone is now extremely obese), issues that make it \"bad\" must be addressed in-universe (obesity is not only attractive in this world, but the related health issues and disabilities are a thing of the past). If the change is morally-complcated, then at some point, [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope the old-fashioned character]] MUST be on the \"wrong\" side.

A subtrope of NostalgiaFilter and combination of ValuesDissonance and FallenHero. May overlap with NobleBigot (and NobleBigotWithABadge), CowboyCop, MilitaryMaverick, RacistGrandma, BornInTheWrongCentury, and JadedWashout. Subversion of HeroWithBadPublicity and VillainWithGoodPublicity, since the one with the bad publicity is the one that\'s wrong. Sympathetic portrayals may overlap with TragicVillain or ByronicHero, as well as BrokenPedestal. A character that expects this will often proclaim that there\'s NoPlaceForMeThere. May be considered a heroic version of \"YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness\".

This is an UndeadHorseTrope and the polar opposite of GrayingMorality. Because of that, it\'s far more common to see aversions, inversions, subversions or deconstructions of this trope, such as CrapsaccharineWorld, HappinessIsMandatory, GrayAndGreyMorality, GoodIsOldFashioned, GoodIsBoring, VictoryIsBoring, BadFuture, or BadPresent.

* Observe the RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment. [[note]]No matter \'\'what\'\' the characters, setting or narrative says, any societal changes that involve ethical or human rights violations \'\'as established by modern standards\'\' (ecological damage, slavery, abuse, bigotry, lower \"quality of life\", etc.) should be considered an automatic \"downside\" and thus disqualified.[[/note]]

* SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}}, DependingOnTheWriter, may fit this trope during his StartOfDarkness origins. After surviving horrible atrocities against the worst types of human beings (usually [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi concentration camps]] during WorldWarII), the young man who would be Magneto saw similar [[FantasticRacism hate-mongering]] starting to appear against [[WitchSpecies mutants]], which he himself was. At some point, he joined forces with another mutant named Charles Xavier and the two made great achievements protecting and advancing mutantkind. However, Magneto remained convinced that human-mutant coexistence was impossible and that mutants had to eventually take control from humanity. The falling out between himself and Charles and their incompatible ideologies is the impetus for the \'\'Franchise/XMen\'\' series. In particular, Creator/GrantMorrison\'s run on X-Men directly makes the claim that Magneto\'s contribution to mutantkind is over and that even the mutant populace would rather fondly remember him as an obsolete hero.
* In Creator/MarvelComics\' mythology works (\'\'ComicBook/TheMightyThor\'\', \'\'ComicBook/IncredibleHercules\'\' and others), many gods succumb to this trope as they can\'t deal with a world that\'s moved on without them. (Or, in fact, [[GodsNeedPrayerBadly their lives may depend on being worshipped.]]) In particular, in some of their douchebaggiest moments, [[TopGod Zeus and Odin]] have both hatched terrible schemes to trick or cow humanity into worshipping them again, usually by some sort of apocalyptic show of force. Fortunately, Thor, Hercules, and other characters who are loyal to humanity have typically talked them out of it.
* \'\'Franchise/CaptainAmerica\'\': PlayedWith, because in his case society may have improved, but the government running it hasn\'t. While he laments some things he did during WorldWarTwo, he remained TheCape and fought for what he understood to be good in accordance to contemporary values. Helping matters was the fact that, during his day, America was an isolationist country and not quite the HegemonicEmpire it became during the ColdWar. During comic book arcs that were published during TheSixties, TheSeventies and TheEighties, a lot of angst was tossed his way because certain things like TheVietnamWar and a lot of corrupt government officials generated an extreme (InUniverse and out) hatred for \"TheMan\" and anything that represented him (like Cap). In nearly all portrayals of the character, Cap reaches a point where he realizes that his country isn\'t merely defending the world from evil, but has in its own its way become the problem. DependingOnTheWriter, his stories either take a GrayingMorality bent, whereas Cap is OnlySaneMan, or \'\'this\'\' trope, whereupon Cap realizes that he \'\'is\'\' on the wrong side. But really it depends on [[WriterOnBoard what point that particular writer wants to make.]]

* \'\'Literature/SpeakerForTheDead\'\': At the end of \'\'Literature/EndersGame\'\', Ender is universally respected as the savior of humanity for his defeat of the Buggers. By the time of this sequel set 3000 years later, however, he is universally reviled for his extermination of the Buggers, who are regarded sympathetically. This shift is largely due to his own actions; Ender himself was empathetic to the Buggers, and wrote a book from their perspective that proved to be very influential.

* One segment in the \'\'Series/BabylonFive\'\' season four finale, \"[[Recap/BabylonFiveS04E22TheDeconstructionOfFallingStars The Deconstruction of Falling Stars]]\", set 100 years in the future from the rest of the show, has some {{Pompous Political Pundit}}s questioning John Sheridan\'s motives in creating the Interstellar Alliance, essentially calling him a megalomaniac who was out to feed his ego (though they acknowledge he did do a lot of good despite this). [[spoiler:Then Delenn shows up, just to tell several million people watching that Sheridan was a good man.]]
* \'\'Series/BarneyMiller\'\': [[DeskJockey Inspector Luger]] goes out on a call with one of the detectives to catch a thief. When they do, the Inspector cuffs him and then smacks the perp around until he gives up the goods, which used to be the norm but isn\'t allowed any more. The Inspector\'s temporary partner Wojo is quite upset over this.
* In \'\'Series/BlueBloods\'\' there\'s a recurring theme of how being a CowboyCop was a lot more accepted when Grandpa Henry was on the force than it is now: the streets of New York were rougher and there weren\'t any cell phone cameras. In one episode there\'s a threat to an officer from organized crime, and Henry remarks to an old friend about how in a similar situation when he was police commissioner, he sent the boys in blue out to crack heads until somebody coughed up a name. This then shows up on Website/YouTube as Henry admitting to PoliceBrutality. [[spoiler:It\'s revealed later that Henry was being a PapaWolf: the officer in danger was his son Frank Reagan, the current PC.]]
* \'\'Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine\'\':
** The first two seasons have the Kohn-Ma and the Circle, both being Bajoran groups that came out of LaResistance to the Cardassian Occupation but who now are violently opposed to \'\'any\'\' foreign presence on Bajor, including the Federation protagonists\' humanitarian relief efforts out of Deep Space 9 at the request of the Bajoran Provisional Government. Bajorans friendly to the Federation regard them as little more than terrorists, [[YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters and not the good kind]].
** The series has a recurring theme of Cardassians attempting to reclaim what they see as Cardassia\'s glorious past. Late in the series, after Legate Damar pulls a HeelFaceTurn against the Dominion who have reduced Cardassia to a puppet state, he\'s even forced to gun down one of his own allies and an old friend, Gul Rusot, when he lets his enthusiasm for the old ways get in the way of the immediate mission of bringing down the Dominion.

* In \'\'VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins\'\', Teyrn Loghain Mac Tir\'s worldview is stuck in the time of the Orlesian occupation of his country, so he considers a handful of Orlesian [[ImpartialPurposeDrivenFaction Grey Wardens]] and [[spoiler:the possibility of King Cailan divorcing Loghain\'s daughter and marrying the Orlesian Empress instead]] a much bigger threat to Ferelden than, say, an endless horde of AlwaysChaoticEvil monsters who spread ThePlague and are led by a giant unkillable {{Dracolich}} from the underworld. This ultimately makes him the secondary BigBad of the story, after said demon itself.
* \'\'Franchise/MassEffect:\'\'
** Party member Urdnot Wrex felt this way about his father. Decades or even centuries before the start of the games, Wrex and his father [[ArchnemesisDad came to blows]] about how to save their DyingRace. His father was a krogan hero who\'d fight all the way back in the [[BugWar Rachni Wars]]. He was set in the old ways, [[ProudWarriorRace seeking to go to war with everyone]] regardless of the fact that doing so at this point would be suicide. Wrex, trying to think radically about their survival, wanted to create a more civilized society of krogan. This made him very unpopular with his old man and \'\'many\'\' of their race. In the end, his father tried one last time to sway Wrex to his side, and when Wrex refused, [[OffingTheOffspring he sprang his trap]]. Wrex killed his father and fled the planet.
** The Illusive Man, aka Jack Harper, was once an Alliance hero who fought in the First Contact War against the war-like (and mildly genocidal) turian species. From the viewpoint of the humans, this was their FirstContact (natch) with an alien race and these guys were willing to nuke entire civilian cities [[DeathFromAbove from orbit]] to force humans to surrender. However, the whole \"war\" was a tragic misunderstanding and once things were cleared up, humans were welcomed into galactic society. However, peace was a bitter pill to swallow for many humans (such as Harper), who never lost his \"Humans First\" priorities. Many humans, in fact, still see him as a hero; even humans with no hate for aliens appreciate what he does to protect mankind--which is how he pooled together thousands of like-minded persons from the military and civilian spheres to create Cerberus, a major antagonist faction across the first \'\'Mass Effect\'\' trilogy.
* \'\'Franchise/MetalGear:\'\' Almost every major BigBad or GreaterScopeVillain in the franchise qualifies for this trope. Part of the conflict of the series revolves around the problem of what becomes of great soldiers once their job is done. For example, many in Army\'s Heaven, Outer Heaven, Foxhound, and the Patriots are once-heroes who have no idea how to cope with peace.
* \'\'VideoGame/Sly2BandOfThieves\'\': Jean Bison is a nineteenth century Canadian lumberjack who has survived into the modern via being frozen alive following an avalanche. He is oblivious to the need to conserve natural resources as he seeks to continue his mission to \"tame the wild North\" via unrestrained chopping down of forests. The writers acknowledge the DeliberateValuesDissonance by having Sly Cooper mentioning that Bison would have been a Hero in his time.

* \'\'Webcomic/SaturdayMorningBreakfastCereal\'\' has a fertility god tell a (modern) woman he\'s going to fulfill all her wishes. She looks ecstatic... [[ValuesDissonance and then he tells her she\'s now fertile and assured to bear boys.]]