History Main / GoodNeedsEvil

* During Satan's song in the ''SouthPark'' movie, he sings "without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes".

** Free will still doesn't explain the LittlestCancerPatient, but several of the other arguments on this page kinda work for that.

* A recent study of [[RivalSchools Carnegie Mellon University and University Of Pittsburgh]] students seems to indicate that honesty goes up when an "outsider" is said to have cheated and goes down when an "insider" is said to have cheated. This trope might even be TruthInTelevision! Not that Good ''needs'' evil, but that some of the paragons of Good might have come from refusing to associate with Evil traits.

* ''{{Legend}}''. Just before he's apparently destroyed by the light:

* Mihail Bulgakov's novel TheMasterAndMargarita has Professor Woland, an avatar of {{Satan}}, schooling Matthew Levi: "You spoke your words as though you denied the very existence of the shadows or of evil. Think, now: where would your good be if there were no evil and what would the world look like without shadow? Shadows are thrown by people and things. There's the shadow of my sword, for instance. But shadows are also cast by trees and living things. Do you want to strip the whole globe by removing every tree and every creature to satisfy your fantasy of a bare world? You're stupid."

* A major theme in ''ParadiseLost''

* It underlies TheLordOfTheRings and the rest of Tolkien's world.

* Mihail Bulgakov's novel {{The Master And Margarita}} has Professor Woland, an avatar of {{Satan}}, schooling Matthew Levi: "You spoke your words as though you denied the very existence of the shadows or of evil. Think, now: where would your good be if there were no evil and what would the world look like without shadow? Shadows are thrown by people and things. There's the shadow of my sword, for instance. But shadows are also cast by trees and living things. Do you want to strip the whole globe by removing every tree and every creature to satisfy your fantasy of a bare world? You're stupid."

* Some of the ''{{Dragonlance}}'' books have a darker take on this. The god of good in this setting is a WellIntentionedExtremist with impossibly high standards, and he'd like to see all villains redeemed ([[TheEvilsOfFreeWill through brainwashing if necessary]]), or else [[AllCrimesAreEqual slain]]. If he actually beat the forces of evil, he'd become [[NotSoDifferent just as bad]].
** In a nutshell, good needs evil to have something to fight against. If no outside targets are forthcoming, some of the good becomes evil to fight against itself.

* This is a major part of [[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html Tarquin's argument]] as to why his XanatosSpeedChess is guaranteed to work in ''Webcomic/OrderOfTheStick''.

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<<|GoodnessTropes|>>

* In a [[BlueAndOrangeMorality different sense than good or evil]], Nationalism didn't really kick off until Napoleon told Europe that they were French. They told him "nuts". Then sat down and thought about what they ''were'', knowing what they weren't.

* A recent study of [[RivalSchools Carnegie Mellon University and University Of Pittsburgh]] students seems to indicate that honesty goes up when an "outsider" is said to have cheated and goes down when an "insider" is said to have cheated. This trope might even be TruthInTelevision!

* This is a major part of [[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html Tarquin's argument]] as to why his XanatosSpeedChess ''has'' to work in ''Webcomic/OrderOfTheStick''.

* This is a major part of [[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html Tarquin's argument]] as to why it's a ''good'' thing that he's evil in ''Webcomic/OrderOfTheStick''.

** Free will still doesn't explain TheLittlestCancerPatient, but several of the other arguments on this page kinda work for that.

* ''{{Disgaea 3}}''. [[spoiler: The entire plot of the game was [[XanatosGambit planned out]] by the Super Hero Aurum, the greatest hero of mankind, in order to raise Mao into being the Strongest Overlord... because, having defeated the PREVIOUS Strongest Overlord, Mao's father, he found himself bereft of a purpose. At the very end, he gives a whole speech about how the one thing a hero truly NEEDS, is a VILLAIN. Without an evil to fight, a hero is just a man - unimportant and soon forgotten. Because of that, Aurum spent 200 years disguised as a demon, raising Mao to be evil and powerful, and pushing him towards genocidal anger against humanity - just so he'd be able to swoop in in the last second and stop him. In the 'Bad' ending, he actually succeeds on the first part, and Mao invades and attacks the human world - but when Aurum tries to stop him, he unwittingly pushes Mao's BerserkButton by killing off his childhood friend, Raspberyl, sending Mao into a SuicidalCosmicTemperTantrum.]] So really, it might be considered an ''inversion'' of this trope, though matching nicely with the current name...

* [[DefiedTrope Defied]] by the apostle Paul in TheBible, against people who rationalized this as an excuse to keep doing things they know are sinful:

* Professor Zoom, the Reverse-{{Flash}}, works on the principle that he's making the heroes greater by giving them tragedy to overcome.

* TheFifthElement: Zorg's perfect example of the Broken Glass Fallacy:

* This is a major part of [[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html Tarquin's argument]] as to why it's a ''good'' thing that he's evil in ''OrderOfTheStick''.

* During Satan's song in the ''SouthPark movie'', he sings "without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes".

* During Satan's song in the "SouthPark" movie, he sings "without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes".

* During Satan's song in the "[SouthPark]" movie, he sings "without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes".

* During Satan's song in the [SouthPark''South Park''] movie, he sings "without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes".

* During Satan's song in the ''South Park'' movie, he sings "without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes".

* ''{{Disgaea 3}}''. [[spoiler: The entire plot of the game was [[XanatosGambit planned out]] by the Super Hero Aurum, the greatest hero of mankind, in order to raise Mao into being the Strongest Overlord... because, having defeated the PREVIOUS Strongest Overlord, Mao's father, he found himself bereft of a purpose. At the very end, he gives a whole speech about how the one thing a hero truly NEEDS, is a VILLAIN. Without an evil to fight, a hero is just a man - unimportant and soon forgotten. Because of that, Aurum spent 300 years disguised as a demon, raising Mao to be evil and powerful, and pushing him towards genocidal anger against humanity - just so he'd be able to swoop in in the last second and stop him. In the 'Bad' ending, he actually succeeds on the first part, and Mao invades and attacks the human world - but when Aurum tries to stop him, he unwittingly pushes Mao's BerserkButton by killing off his childhood friend, Raspberyl, sending Mao into a SuicidalCosmicTemperTantrum.]] So really, it might be considered an ''inversion'' of this trope, though matching nicely with the current name...