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**** But did he have to do it right there, on the bridge, in front of everyone? I mean, I realize time is an issue, but still, seeing him do that in front of an audience was... greatly uncomfortable.
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** It's also been stated that the cloak was adjusted to allow for weapons fire but not shields. One torpedo shot was all it took to take the cloak down. The Scimitar in ''Nemesis'' may very well have been built expressly to handle such power requirements for cloak, weapons and shields, but it seemed to be a custom-built ship from the ground up (not using a prior starship model) that was in no way viable for mass or semi-mass production. Even today most stealth ships are meant for recon or nuclear payloads, the F-22 had to sacrifice some stealth capability in order to be combat efficient. If you're going to do recon or first-strike stuff, regular cloaks work just as well.
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***I've always assumed that Starfleet also developed tactics to deal with such a vessel. In Star Trek: Nemesis, while fighting a starship that has the same ability to fire under cloak, Captain Picard employs a battle plan very quickly, and he even seems distracted while he's doing it. Later, Riker orders "defensive pattern Kirk epsilon." Considering that Kirk was the first Starfleet captain to battle a warship with this capability, he probably developed plans of action for this kind of situation, and Starfleet named these tactics after him.
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* When that prison guard shot the shapeshifter and said "No witnesses," how did he know he was shooting the shapeshifter? Or did he not care who he was shooting at and only realized he killed the shapeshifter after it died and just said that to sound badass?

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* When that prison guard shot the shapeshifter and said "No witnesses," how did he know he was shooting the shapeshifter? Or did he not care who he was shooting at and only realized he killed the shapeshifter after it died and just said that to sound badass?badass?
** It didn't terribly matter which one he shot first, the other one [[DramaticIrony wasn't going anywhere]]. It was a quip after he saw which one he had offed. In fact, had he shot Kirk, he could have said the exact same thing as a PreMortemOneLiner before shooting the shapeshifter.
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*** Far out! You just precisely described the backstory to S.M. Stirling's novel, The Peshawar Lancers. Comet fragments impact across North America and Asia in the late 19th century, and while Britain is spared direct devastation, the resulting 3-year-long winter reduces the island to a cannibalistic wasteland. TheEmpire is able to survive by relocating its ruling class and technological capacity to India. Of course, the Klingons would have to do this while simultaneously fending off encroachment by potentially hostile foreign enemies. The Federation isn't ''overly'' likely to take advantage, but the Romulans, the Cardassians, etc?
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* When that prison guard shot the shapeshifter and said "No witnesses," how did he know he was shooting the shapeshifter? Or did he not care who he was shooting at and only realised he killed the shapeshifter after it died and just said that to sound badass?

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* When that prison guard shot the shapeshifter and said "No witnesses," how did he know he was shooting the shapeshifter? Or did he not care who he was shooting at and only realised realized he killed the shapeshifter after it died and just said that to sound badass?
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*** In-universe ScienceMarchesOn. Build a better cloaking device and someone will build better sensors. In the dozen years following this Starfleet starting making sensors that could detect and extrapolate from exhaust vapours, and someone in (or under contract to) the Klingon and Romulan empires was racing to try and find a way to mask this. As soon as they found that way all those sensor modifications Starfleet came up with were obsolete.

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*** In-universe ScienceMarchesOn. Build a better cloaking device and someone will build better sensors. In the dozen years following this Starfleet starting making sensors that could detect and extrapolate from exhaust vapours, and someone in (or under contract to) the Klingon and Romulan empires was racing to try and find a way to mask this. As soon as they found that way all those sensor modifications Starfleet came up with were obsolete.obsolete.
*When that prison guard shot the shapeshifter and said "No witnesses," how did he know he was shooting the shapeshifter? Or did he not care who he was shooting at and only realised he killed the shapeshifter after it died and just said that to sound badass?
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Removed wallbanger.


* This movie features a Klingon Bird of Prey prototype that can ''fire while cloaked.'' Yet in ''Trek'' series set 70-80 years after this movie, we never hear anything more about this ability. Being able to attack while invisible grants an ''enormous'' tactical advantage, so the Klingons wouldn't have just abandoned this. Possibly qualifies as a WallBanger.

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* This movie features a Klingon Bird of Prey prototype that can ''fire while cloaked.'' Yet in ''Trek'' series set 70-80 years after this movie, we never hear anything more about this ability. Being able to attack while invisible grants an ''enormous'' tactical advantage, so the Klingons wouldn't have just abandoned this. Possibly qualifies as a WallBanger.
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**Didn't you just ask that right above here?
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*** Actually, it made a kind of sense if you read the subtext as, "Don't use waiting for the translation as a way to stall for thinking time that you shouldn't need to answer a question that you should know the answer to. . . only if I say all that (and all this) I'll have given you exactly what you wanted, a stall for time, so I'll just tell you not to wait for the translation and then shut up so you can be on the spot in front of everyone."
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***Nimoy's acting specifically addresses this point, [[IDidWhatIHadToDo he did what he had to do]] and it's obvious it hurt Spock to do it.



** Note that we never again see the engine-emission-homing photon torpedo that Scotty jury-rigged to counter this new cloak, either. Another case of ReedRichardsIsUseless.

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** Note that we never again see the engine-emission-homing photon torpedo that Scotty jury-rigged to counter this new cloak, either. Another case of ReedRichardsIsUseless.ReedRichardsIsUseless.
***In-universe ScienceMarchesOn. Build a better cloaking device and someone will build better sensors. In the dozen years following this Starfleet starting making sensors that could detect and extrapolate from exhaust vapours, and someone in (or under contract to) the Klingon and Romulan empires was racing to try and find a way to mask this. As soon as they found that way all those sensor modifications Starfleet came up with were obsolete.
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**Think colonially. All the apparatus of state is on Qo'noS, everything goes through there and it is the heart of the Klingon Empire. Now, instead of trying to compare it to 20th/21stC USA, think of it as the 18th or 19thC and imagine Qo'noS is the UK. If the island of Britain was rendered uninhabitable in the 19thC how long do you think it would take for the British Empire to fall apart? Even if it took a few years to take effect it would still rip the heart and identity out of the Empire. That's a better analogy.
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Cloaked Klingon ship entry

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*** On Deep Space 9, the power of the Defiant's engines keep running under cloak from being a viable option. Once a weapon is fired, it marks something off and other things once hidden will come to light. Probably another reason the UFP ditched cloak-tech--you spend way too much time beating the next upgrade in detection tech.
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** Though given what happens in the movie, the prototype was a failure. Expanded Universe information indicates that firing while cloaked took enormous power and the ship couldn't sustain it for long; of course it wasn't intended to need to, but once Starfleet worked out how to easily detect such a ship by its engine emissions it lost its tactical advantage. Later series would make cloaking device/detection technology more of an explicit arms race - any development on one side gives only a brief advantage before the other side catches up, and no cloak is perfect.

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** Though given what happens in the movie, the prototype was a failure. Expanded Universe information indicates that firing while cloaked took enormous power and the ship couldn't sustain it for long; of course it wasn't intended to need to, but once Starfleet worked out how to easily detect such a ship by its engine emissions it lost its tactical advantage. Later series would make cloaking device/detection technology more of an explicit arms race - any development on one side gives only a brief advantage before the other side catches up, and no cloak is perfect.perfect.
** Note that we never again see the engine-emission-homing photon torpedo that Scotty jury-rigged to counter this new cloak, either. Another case of ReedRichardsIsUseless.
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Moved from Fridge Logic section (I know its a bit of a duplication, but I don\'t want to outright delete it)


** The needs of the many...

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** The needs of the many...many...
* This movie features a Klingon Bird of Prey prototype that can ''fire while cloaked.'' Yet in ''Trek'' series set 70-80 years after this movie, we never hear anything more about this ability. Being able to attack while invisible grants an ''enormous'' tactical advantage, so the Klingons wouldn't have just abandoned this. Possibly qualifies as a WallBanger.
** Though given what happens in the movie, the prototype was a failure. Expanded Universe information indicates that firing while cloaked took enormous power and the ship couldn't sustain it for long; of course it wasn't intended to need to, but once Starfleet worked out how to easily detect such a ship by its engine emissions it lost its tactical advantage. Later series would make cloaking device/detection technology more of an explicit arms race - any development on one side gives only a brief advantage before the other side catches up, and no cloak is perfect.
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** But they do make loads more regular Birds of Prey, so either the Klingons solved the gas emission problem or Kirk and Crew were so mad about being retired they never told Starfleet how to find a cloaked BofP.
*** The gas problem was something only the modified Bird-or-prey had. Its cloak couldn't completely mask the emissions because of the power needed for the weapons, which allowed the ''Enterprise'' to track it with the gas sensor. Regular cloaked ships put nearly all the power to the cloaking device to ensure everything is hidden.
**** Now that makes sense and explains why the Klingons never made anymore of the modified BofP's and why Starfleet never used the same method to find regular BofP's.
* "Don't wait for the translation!" - If Kirk and McCoy don't wait for the translation of your question General Chang how will they know what you asked them?

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** But they do make loads more regular Birds of Prey, Birds-of-Prey, so either the Klingons solved the gas emission problem or Kirk and Crew were so mad about being retired they never told Starfleet how to find a cloaked BofP.
[=BofP=].
*** The gas problem was something only the modified Bird-or-prey Bird-of-Prey had. Its cloak couldn't completely mask the emissions because of the power needed for the weapons, which allowed the ''Enterprise'' to track it with the gas sensor. Regular cloaked ships put nearly all the power to the cloaking device to ensure everything is hidden.
**** Now that makes sense and explains why the Klingons never made anymore of the modified BofP's [=BofP=]s and why Starfleet never used the same method to find regular BofP's.
[=BofP=]s.
* "Don't wait for the translation!" - If Kirk and McCoy [=McCoy=] don't wait for the translation of your question General Chang how will they know what you asked them?



* Spock forcing his way into Valeris mind was...[[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything Dodgy,]] [[{{Squick}} to say the least.]]

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* Spock forcing his way into Valeris mind was... [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything Dodgy,]] dodgy,]] [[{{Squick}} to say the least.]]
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**** In the initial briefing to the crew, it's mentioned that the loss of their homeworld will lead to the dissolution of the empire at least in part due to their overabundance of military spending, the colonies couldn't turn their economies to reconstruction in time to help. I believe there is background material somewhere which states that peace treaty with the Federation allowed the Klingons to use Federation technology to repair the damage to Qo'nos.
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**** Now that makes sense and explains why the Klingons never made anymore of the modified BofP's and why Starfleet never used the same method to find regular BofP's.
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*** Or they named the new Homeworld after the old one. And chose it further away from the Federation than a four day flight at Warp 5.



* Spock forcing his way into Valeris mind was...[[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything Dodgy,]] [[{{Squick}} to say the least.]]

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* Spock forcing his way into Valeris mind was...[[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything Dodgy,]] [[{{Squick}} to say the least.]]]]
** The needs of the many...
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* Spock forcing his way into Valeris mind was...[[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything Dodgy, [[{{Squick}} to say the least.]]

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* Spock forcing his way into Valeris mind was...[[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything Dodgy, Dodgy,]] [[{{Squick}} to say the least.]]
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** It's a ShoutOut to something said to the [[DirtyCommunists Russian ambassador]] by the [[{{Eagleland}} American ambassador]] during the CubanMissileCrisis. It made as little sense in RealLife as it did in StarTrek.

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** It's a ShoutOut to something said to the [[DirtyCommunists Russian ambassador]] by the [[{{Eagleland}} American ambassador]] during the CubanMissileCrisis. It made as little sense in RealLife as it did in StarTrek.StarTrek.
*Spock forcing his way into Valeris mind was...[[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything Dodgy, [[{{Squick}} to say the least.]]
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** And by the time of ''The Next Generation'', the Klingon homeworld is still Qo'noS. So either the damage wasn't as bad as they thought, or they got some ozone-creating technology working right quick after the disaster.


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*** The gas problem was something only the modified Bird-or-prey had. Its cloak couldn't completely mask the emissions because of the power needed for the weapons, which allowed the ''Enterprise'' to track it with the gas sensor. Regular cloaked ships put nearly all the power to the cloaking device to ensure everything is hidden.
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** But they do make loads more regular Birds of Prey, so either the Klingons solved the gas emission problem or Kirk and Crew were so mad about being retired they never told Starfleet how to find a cloaked BofP.
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** Kirk demonstrates how to defeat this version of the cloaking device by the end of the movie, so the Klingons didn't bother to build any more.

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*** An example of either city doesn't really work since the city would be destroyed instantly, while the Klingons had half a century to evacuate Qo'noS.



* "Don't wait for the translation!" - If Kirk and McCoy don't wait for the translation of your question General Chang how will they know what you asked them?

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** See NoPlansNoPrototypeNoBackup. Not a justification, just that it's a very common trope.
* "Don't wait for the translation!" - If Kirk and McCoy don't wait for the translation of your question General Chang how will they know what you asked them?them?
** It's a ShoutOut to something said to the [[DirtyCommunists Russian ambassador]] by the [[{{Eagleland}} American ambassador]] during the CubanMissileCrisis. It made as little sense in RealLife as it did in StarTrek.
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* Chang has a Bird of Prey that can fire while cloaked, and it presents Enterprise and Excelsior with a huge tactical disadvantage. Why did the Klingons only make one prototype like this and forget about it by Picard's time?

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* Chang has a Bird of Prey that can fire while cloaked, and it presents Enterprise and Excelsior with a huge tactical disadvantage. Why did the Klingons only make one prototype like this and forget about it by Picard's time?time?
* "Don't wait for the translation!" - If Kirk and McCoy don't wait for the translation of your question General Chang how will they know what you asked them?
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*** Actually I considered using Washington but I figured the USA would recover ''faster'' than if New York was hit. DC is smaller and more focused on a single industry, Government, than New York and presumably the US government has contingency plans for losing the capital left over from the ColdWar

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*** Actually I considered using Washington but I figured the USA would recover ''faster'' than if New York was hit. DC is smaller and more focused on a single industry, Government, than New York and presumably the US government has contingency plans for losing the capital left over from the ColdWarColdWar
* Chang has a Bird of Prey that can fire while cloaked, and it presents Enterprise and Excelsior with a huge tactical disadvantage. Why did the Klingons only make one prototype like this and forget about it by Picard's time?
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** True. But what if, instead of New York City, the city being destroyed is Washington DC? (Forgive the Yankee-centric conversation, by the way!) It wouldn't spell instant death for the nation, but it would be a ''hell'' of a knock nevertheless, one that would take years if not decades to recover from. The same principle applies here. As for your second issue: Presumably even in-universe, ScienceMarchesOn. They probably found a way to either fix the problem or do without.

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** True. But what if, instead of New York City, the city being destroyed is Washington DC? (Forgive the Yankee-centric conversation, by the way!) It wouldn't spell instant death for the nation, but it would be a ''hell'' of a knock nevertheless, one that would take years if not decades to recover from. The same principle applies here. As for your second issue: Presumably even in-universe, ScienceMarchesOn. They probably found a way to either fix the problem or do without.without.
*** Actually I considered using Washington but I figured the USA would recover ''faster'' than if New York was hit. DC is smaller and more focused on a single industry, Government, than New York and presumably the US government has contingency plans for losing the capital left over from the ColdWar

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* Paxis explodes and strips the ozone layer from Qo'noS meaning that the planet has only fifty years of oxygen left. Just how does the loss of one planet, even if it is the capital world, doom the entire Klingon Empire? The Klingon Empire is supposed to be a major interstellar power that's the equal of the Federation, they don't have a load of colony worlds they can get help from or evacuate to? It's rather like saying New York City is destroyed in a freak yachting accident and this means that the rest of the United States of America collapses. Also the whole giving the Klingons sanctuary in Federation space thing is never, to my knowledge, mentioned again. Throughout the next decade of Trek we regularly see the Klingons swanning around Qo'noS shouting their heads off about honour and blood wine.

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* Paxis Praxis explodes and strips the ozone layer from Qo'noS meaning that the planet has only fifty years of oxygen left. Just how does the loss of one planet, even if it is the capital world, doom the entire Klingon Empire? The Klingon Empire is supposed to be a major interstellar power that's the equal of the Federation, they don't have a load of colony worlds they can get help from or evacuate to? It's rather like saying New York City is destroyed in a freak yachting accident and this means that the rest of the United States of America collapses. Also the whole giving the Klingons sanctuary in Federation space thing is never, to my knowledge, mentioned again. Throughout the next decade of Trek we regularly see the Klingons swanning around Qo'noS shouting their heads off about honour and blood wine.wine.
** True. But what if, instead of New York City, the city being destroyed is Washington DC? (Forgive the Yankee-centric conversation, by the way!) It wouldn't spell instant death for the nation, but it would be a ''hell'' of a knock nevertheless, one that would take years if not decades to recover from. The same principle applies here. As for your second issue: Presumably even in-universe, ScienceMarchesOn. They probably found a way to either fix the problem or do without.
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Click the edit button to start this new page.

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Click * Paxis explodes and strips the edit button ozone layer from Qo'noS meaning that the planet has only fifty years of oxygen left. Just how does the loss of one planet, even if it is the capital world, doom the entire Klingon Empire? The Klingon Empire is supposed to start be a major interstellar power that's the equal of the Federation, they don't have a load of colony worlds they can get help from or evacuate to? It's rather like saying New York City is destroyed in a freak yachting accident and this new page. means that the rest of the United States of America collapses. Also the whole giving the Klingons sanctuary in Federation space thing is never, to my knowledge, mentioned again. Throughout the next decade of Trek we regularly see the Klingons swanning around Qo'noS shouting their heads off about honour and blood wine.

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