History Headscratchers / StarTrekVItheUndiscoveredCountry

24th Dec '16 8:54:23 AM TheMysteriousTroper
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* Upon arriving at the Starfleet meeting and seeing the other Enterprise crew, sans Spock, whose absence Kirk comments about, McCoy asks, "If we're all here, where's Sulu?" Why would McCoy think Sulu would be there? According to the opening, Sulu hasn't been part of the Enterprise crew for at least 3 years.

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* Upon arriving at the Starfleet meeting and seeing the other Enterprise crew, sans Spock, whose absence Kirk comments about, McCoy [=McCoy=] asks, "If we're all here, where's Sulu?" Why would McCoy [=McCoy=] think Sulu would be there? According to the opening, Sulu hasn't been part of the Enterprise crew for at least 3 years.



*** Still, regardless of how long Sulu was captain of the Excelsior, he was no longer part of the Enterprise crew, so why was McCoy expecting him to be there?

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*** Still, regardless of how long Sulu was captain of the Excelsior, he was no longer part of the Enterprise crew, so why was McCoy [=McCoy=] expecting him to be there?
13th Dec '16 8:55:20 AM costanton11
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** ''Excelsior'' was close enough to Klingon space that it was hit by the shock wave from Praxis exploding. Most likely, Sulu was given the location of hte conference in case shit hit the fan, much as it did. ''Enterprise'' wasn't given the location because A) she was supposed to be en route back to Earth, and B) [[FridgeBrilliance Uhura had claimed that the comms were malfunctioning, so there was no reason for ''Enterprise'' to be contacted]].

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** ''Excelsior'' was close enough to Klingon space that it was hit by the shock wave from Praxis exploding. Most likely, Sulu was given the location of hte the conference in case shit hit the fan, much as it did. ''Enterprise'' wasn't given the location because A) she was supposed to be en route back to Earth, and B) [[FridgeBrilliance Uhura had claimed that the comms were malfunctioning, so there was no reason for ''Enterprise'' to be contacted]].



* Praxis explodes and strips the ozone layer from Qo'noS meaning that the planet has only fifty years of oxygen left. Just how does the loss of one planet, even if it is the capital world, doom the entire Klingon Empire? The Klingon Empire is supposed to be a major interstellar power that's the equal of the Federation, they don't have a load of colony worlds they can get help from or evacuate to? It's rather like saying New York City is destroyed in a freak yachting accident and this means that the rest of the United States of America collapses. Also the whole giving the Klingons sanctuary in Federation space thing is never, to my knowledge, mentioned again. Throughout the next decade of Trek we regularly see the Klingons swanning around Qo'noS shouting their heads off about honour and blood wine.

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* Praxis explodes and strips the ozone layer from Qo'noS meaning that the planet has only fifty years of oxygen left. Just how does the loss of one planet, even if it is the capital world, doom the entire Klingon Empire? The Klingon Empire is supposed to be a major interstellar power that's the equal of the Federation, they don't have a load of colony worlds they can get help from or evacuate to? It's rather like saying New York City is destroyed in a freak yachting accident and this means that the rest of the United States of America collapses. Also the whole giving the Klingons sanctuary in Federation space thing is never, to my knowledge, mentioned again. Throughout the next decade of Trek we regularly see the Klingons swanning around Qo'noS shouting their heads off about honour honor and blood wine.



** And by the time of ''The Next Generation'', the Klingon homeworld is still Qo'noS. So either the damage wasn't as bad as they thought, or they got some ozone-creating technology working right quick after the disaster.
*** Or they named the new Homeworld after the old one. And chose it further away from the Federation than a four day flight at Warp 5.
*** In the initial briefing to the crew, it's mentioned that the loss of their homeworld will lead to the dissolution of the empire at least in part due to their overabundance of military spending, the colonies couldn't turn their economies to reconstruction in time to help. I believe there is background material somewhere which states that peace treaty with the Federation allowed the Klingons to use Federation technology to repair the damage to Qo'nos.

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** And by the time of ''The Next Generation'', the Klingon homeworld home world is still Qo'noS. So either the damage wasn't as bad as they thought, or they got some ozone-creating technology working right quick after the disaster.
*** Or they named the new Homeworld Home world after the old one. And chose it further away from the Federation than a four day flight at Warp 5.
*** In the initial briefing to the crew, it's mentioned that the loss of their homeworld home world will lead to the dissolution of the empire at least in part due to their overabundance of military spending, the colonies couldn't turn their economies to reconstruction in time to help. I believe there is background material somewhere which states that peace treaty with the Federation allowed the Klingons to use Federation technology to repair the damage to Qo'nos.



* What about the various subject worlds[=/=]species of the Klingon Empire? By propping up the Klingons, isn't the Federation helping them to keep conquered worlds under their rule, whereas normally in the face of such circumstances many worlds would strive to gain independence? That was what happened after the Soviet Union began to economically crumble after all. Basically all of the Eastern European and Northwest Asian nations they had turned into territorial possessions broke away. By the same token, who is to say that all of the Klingon colonies wanted to continue to be subject to central rule from Qo'nos? Klingon society is dominated by the warriors largely because they control the Council and the homeworld. Those Klingons who do not wish to be warriors have to either endure social scorn or become warriors anyway. It would seem as if this entire exercise was a ''massive'' violation of the Prime Directive! The Federation is basically making policy to the effect that deciding the future of many worlds and peoples beyond their borders is fine so long as it produces an outcome that is beneficial to the Federation.

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* What about the various subject worlds[=/=]species of the Klingon Empire? By propping up the Klingons, isn't the Federation helping them to keep conquered worlds under their rule, whereas normally in the face of such circumstances many worlds would strive to gain independence? That was what happened after the Soviet Union began to economically crumble after all. Basically all of the Eastern European and Northwest Asian nations they had turned into territorial possessions broke away. By the same token, who is to say that all of the Klingon colonies wanted to continue to be subject to central rule from Qo'nos? Klingon society is dominated by the warriors largely because they control the Council and the homeworld.home world. Those Klingons who do not wish to be warriors have to either endure social scorn or become warriors anyway. It would seem as if this entire exercise was a ''massive'' violation of the Prime Directive! The Federation is basically making policy to the effect that deciding the future of many worlds and peoples beyond their borders is fine so long as it produces an outcome that is beneficial to the Federation.



*** Except for the fact that they are in Rura Penthe, without translators (as Krik says) and yet they seem to understand fine their Klingon jailers (and is unlikely that the jailers learn English as they're the only humans in the entire prison and apparently the first ones too).

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*** Except for the fact that they are in Rura Penthe, without translators (as Krik Kirk says) and yet they seem to understand fine their Klingon jailers (and is unlikely that the jailers learn English as they're the only humans in the entire prison and apparently the first ones too).



** It was once claimed that there is a silhouette briefly visible in the conference room, suggesting that she was secretly there. I was never able to find it; is there any photographic evidence or can we chalk that up to an unfounded rumour? In any event, it's not all that hard to explain; the conspiracy's tendrils seem to be everywhere, so a hidden mic, as you suggest, or somebody telling Valeris is hardly unreasonable.

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** It was once claimed that there is a silhouette briefly visible in the conference room, suggesting that she was secretly there. I was never able to find it; is there any photographic evidence or can we chalk that up to an unfounded rumour? rumor? In any event, it's not all that hard to explain; the conspiracy's tendrils seem to be everywhere, so a hidden mic, as you suggest, or somebody telling Valeris is hardly unreasonable.



*** In-universe ScienceMarchesOn. Build a better cloaking device and someone will build better sensors. In the dozen years following this Starfleet starting making sensors that could detect and extrapolate from exhaust vapours, and someone in (or under contract to) the Klingon and Romulan empires was racing to try and find a way to mask this. As soon as they found that way all those sensor modifications Starfleet came up with were obsolete.

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*** In-universe ScienceMarchesOn. Build a better cloaking device and someone will build better sensors. In the dozen years following this Starfleet starting making sensors that could detect and extrapolate from exhaust vapours, vapors, and someone in (or under contract to) the Klingon and Romulan empires was racing to try and find a way to mask this. As soon as they found that way all those sensor modifications Starfleet came up with were obsolete.



** Neither a Klingon chancelor nor a Romulan praetor would allow the existence of ships that can be so advantageous for a Civil war or a putsch.

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** Neither a Klingon chancelor chancellor nor a Romulan praetor would allow the existence of ships that can be so advantageous for a Civil war or a putsch.



** Could be Chang was routing his monologing through one of Khitomer's communication satellites so they couldn't trace the transmission directly to his ship.

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** Could be Chang was routing his monologing monologuing through one of Khitomer's communication satellites so they couldn't trace the transmission directly to his ship.



** Even the status of guided torpedoes in the Star Trek universe is confusing. Most times torpedo shots have been launched in any of the series or movies, they follow unguided straight-line paths; since the torpedoes are supposed to be using warp coil sustainer engines (EU Technical Manuals) to be going just under the lightspeed limit without relativity effects (or proper warp speeds), there's not much of a need for complicated guidance systems when you should be able to hit your target in less than a few seconds. Hence, "torpedo lock" is really more like WWII submarines with torpedo computers, where you predict the target's location in the future and aim your torpedoes to hit that point. Hitting Chang's ship required something a bit more nuanced, since they couldn't see where it was or where it was going.

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** Even the status of guided torpedoes in the Star Trek universe is confusing. Most times torpedo shots have been launched in any of the series or movies, they follow unguided straight-line paths; since the torpedoes are supposed to be using warp coil sustainer engines (EU Technical Manuals) to be going just under the lightspeed light speed limit without relativity effects (or proper warp speeds), there's not much of a need for complicated guidance systems when you should be able to hit your target in less than a few seconds. Hence, "torpedo lock" is really more like WWII submarines with torpedo computers, where you predict the target's location in the future and aim your torpedoes to hit that point. Hitting Chang's ship required something a bit more nuanced, since they couldn't see where it was or where it was going.



*** I might buy this if the Romulans had some involvement in the proposed rescue mission -- if they had to go through Romulan space to get to the Klingon homeworld faster or something. But no, it just seems like they're too lazy to clear the guy out of the room before the top secret discussion goes on. Actually, I've always been pretty hazy about the Romulans' role in this film, period. Why are they part of the Khitomer Conference? And what is Nanclus's part in the conspiracy -- is he representing his government or is he in it alone for some reason?

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*** I might buy this if the Romulans had some involvement in the proposed rescue mission -- if they had to go through Romulan space to get to the Klingon homeworld home world faster or something. But no, it just seems like they're too lazy to clear the guy out of the room before the top secret discussion goes on. Actually, I've always been pretty hazy about the Romulans' role in this film, period. Why are they part of the Khitomer Conference? And what is Nanclus's part in the conspiracy -- is he representing his government or is he in it alone for some reason?



** The Romulan empire wasn’t indentified as a treacherous enemy during Kirk era. The relationship between the Federation and the Romulans could have improved between the five-year missions and the Praxis incident. Transparency with the Romulan emissaries is a way to show them that the Federation and Klingon Empire are not plotting against them. The prior movie already introduced some trilateral relationships between the three superpowers.

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** The Romulan empire wasn’t indentified identified as a treacherous enemy during Kirk era. The relationship between the Federation and the Romulans could have improved between the five-year missions and the Praxis incident. Transparency with the Romulan emissaries is a way to show them that the Federation and Klingon Empire are not plotting against them. The prior movie already introduced some trilateral relationships between the three superpowers.



** The Chekov case is a bit easier to justify as a momentary lapse, but the point is taken that the film feels free to demean the secondary characters' intelligence for the sake for humour. Strangely, the same thing is true of Star Trek V (remember Scotty hitting his head?) but this film never seems to get called out on it.

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** The Chekov case is a bit easier to justify as a momentary lapse, but the point is taken that the film feels free to demean the secondary characters' intelligence for the sake for humour.humor. Strangely, the same thing is true of Star Trek V (remember Scotty hitting his head?) but this film never seems to get called out on it.



* When asked about the illegality of Romulan Ale, Kirk glibly replies, "One of the advantages of being 1,000 light years from Federation Headquarters." [[SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale Let's do some basic math here.]] 180,000 (miles per second, roughly the speed of light) x 60 (seconds in a minute) x 60 (minutes in an hour) x 24 (hours in a day) x 365 (days in a solar year) = 15,552,000,000 miles. And that's just one light year. Multiply that by 1,000 and you get 1,555,200,000,000 miles. The Enterprise and Kronos One are shown traveling at sublight speeds prior to the start of this scene. Just how long are they planning on making the President wait for these peace talks, anyway??? Possible to justify as the figure "1,000 light years" being a bit of colorful language that Captain Kirk is throwing around, but the puzzled look on Brigadier Kerla's face is worth noting.
* A light year is roughly 5,878,600,000,000 miles. According to ''Enterprise'', Kronos, the Klingon homeworld, is only about 4 days from Earth at Warp 4.5, or around 90 light years away. Since that's where Gorkon was coming from and the ''Enterprise-A'' met them on the way to Earth, Kirk was exaggerating about the distance from Earth by at least a factor of ten and probably more like a factor of 20.

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* When asked about the illegality of Romulan Ale, Kirk glibly replies, "One of the advantages of being 1,000 light years from Federation Headquarters." [[SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale Let's do some basic math here.]] 180,000 (miles per second, roughly the speed of light) x 60 (seconds in a minute) x 60 (minutes in an hour) x 24 (hours in a day) x 365 (days in a solar year) = 15,552,000,000 miles. And that's just one light year. Multiply that by 1,000 and you get 1,555,200,000,000 miles. The Enterprise and Kronos One are shown traveling at sublight sub-light speeds prior to the start of this scene. Just how long are they planning on making the President wait for these peace talks, anyway??? Possible to justify as the figure "1,000 light years" being a bit of colorful language that Captain Kirk is throwing around, but the puzzled look on Brigadier Kerla's face is worth noting.
* A light year is roughly 5,878,600,000,000 miles. According to ''Enterprise'', Kronos, the Klingon homeworld, home world, is only about 4 days from Earth at Warp 4.5, or around 90 light years away. Since that's where Gorkon was coming from and the ''Enterprise-A'' met them on the way to Earth, Kirk was exaggerating about the distance from Earth by at least a factor of ten and probably more like a factor of 20.



** The Klingon bodyguards act to protect the Chancellor rather than the Federation President shortly after the first shot is fired. Apparently they didn't care that Kirk was rushing the President as long as he wasn't attacking Klingons. Where the Federation President's security was is a little less explainable. Maybe the conpsiracy got rid of them in preperation for the attack?

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** The Klingon bodyguards act to protect the Chancellor rather than the Federation President shortly after the first shot is fired. Apparently they didn't care that Kirk was rushing the President as long as he wasn't attacking Klingons. Where the Federation President's security was is a little less explainable. Maybe the conpsiracy conspiracy got rid of them in preperation preparation for the attack?



** For what it's worth, the novelization says that Spock got the information out of Valeris by basically explaining to her why she was wrong and how disappointed he was in her through the mindmeld (feeling Spock's disappointment is what caused her to cry out during the meld), and that after she understood Spock's position she acknowledged her error and gave him the information willingly through the meld. So if the novelization is to be believed Valeris probably made a second completely voluntary confession during any court-martial that occurred.

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** For what it's worth, the novelization says that Spock got the information out of Valeris by basically explaining to her why she was wrong and how disappointed he was in her through the mindmeld mind meld (feeling Spock's disappointment is what caused her to cry out during the meld), and that after she understood Spock's position she acknowledged her error and gave him the information willingly through the meld. So if the novelization is to be believed Valeris probably made a second completely voluntary confession during any court-martial that occurred.



** It was Sulu and his men who took custody of Cartwright, not the Klingons, and he was caught during an attempt to assassinate the Federation President. It seems likely the Federation would try and sentence him for his role in the conspiracy rather than (or at least before) extraditing him to the Klingons. Kirk and [=McCoy=], you'll remember, were taken prisoner by the Klingons on a Klingon ship. Chancellor Azetbur may also have been willling to let the Federation deal with him as a good faith gesture, since she already had enough other problems to deal with (mitigating the effects of the Praxis explosion on Kronos and her Empire, consolidating her own power as Chancellor, finding any remaining Klingon conspirators, etc.).
*** Cartwright probably was court martialled. Then his memory was wiped and he was left running a creole restaurant in New Orleans...

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** It was Sulu and his men who took custody of Cartwright, not the Klingons, and he was caught during an attempt to assassinate the Federation President. It seems likely the Federation would try and sentence him for his role in the conspiracy rather than (or at least before) extraditing him to the Klingons. Kirk and [=McCoy=], you'll remember, were taken prisoner by the Klingons on a Klingon ship. Chancellor Azetbur may also have been willling willing to let the Federation deal with him as a good faith gesture, since she already had enough other problems to deal with (mitigating the effects of the Praxis explosion on Kronos and her Empire, consolidating her own power as Chancellor, finding any remaining Klingon conspirators, etc.).
*** Cartwright probably was court martialled.martialed. Then his memory was wiped and he was left running a creole restaurant in New Orleans...



** Due to budget cuts from the critical failure that was the Star Trek V, there were substantial script changes. For example it has been rumoured that in the original version you actually saw Scotty on his boat as opposed to him just mentioning it in passing. Perhaps in the original version Sulu hadn't been Captain of the Excelsior for long?

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** Due to budget cuts from the critical failure that was the Star Trek V, there were substantial script changes. For example it has been rumoured rumored that in the original version you actually saw Scotty on his boat as opposed to him just mentioning it in passing. Perhaps in the original version Sulu hadn't been Captain of the Excelsior for long?



** If my theory is correct, then Sulu had ''just'' left the Enterprise, as in, right after their last mission. One of the reasons why I think that this line is a mistake not picked up in editing is because at the start of the film (before Praxis blows up) the Excelsior is charting gaseous anomalies. At the end of the film however when the crew are discussing building the exhaust-seeking photon torpedo, it is the Enterprise that was stated by Uhura to have been suddenly charting gaseous anomalies and thus has all of the equipment required for the modified torpedo. Certainly it is not impossible for both ships to have been on the same mission at the same time, but it is a bit of an asspull as this had not been mentioned previously. To me, it makes a lot of sense if the original script had the Enterprise witnesses the death of Praxis, they go back to Earth where we see things like Scotty's retirement boat and Sulu's promotion, and ''then'' the movie cuts to the meeting with the admirals. One last point: in ''Generations'' Kirk had no idea that Sulu had an adult daughter so these are not people that seem to socialise much outside of work (Star Trek V camping trip aside).

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** If my theory is correct, then Sulu had ''just'' left the Enterprise, as in, right after their last mission. One of the reasons why I think that this line is a mistake not picked up in editing is because at the start of the film (before Praxis blows up) the Excelsior is charting gaseous anomalies. At the end of the film however when the crew are discussing building the exhaust-seeking photon torpedo, it is the Enterprise that was stated by Uhura to have been suddenly charting gaseous anomalies and thus has all of the equipment required for the modified torpedo. Certainly it is not impossible for both ships to have been on the same mission at the same time, but it is a bit of an asspull as this had not been mentioned previously. To me, it makes a lot of sense if the original script had the Enterprise witnesses the death of Praxis, they go back to Earth where we see things like Scotty's retirement boat and Sulu's promotion, and ''then'' the movie cuts to the meeting with the admirals. One last point: in ''Generations'' Kirk had no idea that Sulu had an adult daughter so these are not people that seem to socialise socialize much outside of work (Star Trek V camping trip aside).
8th Dec '16 7:36:31 AM Morgenthaler
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** Maybe his mother was one of those smooth-headed Klingons? Presumably after the third or tenth fellow warrior got killed for making YourMom jokes about it, they felt he was BadAss enough not to bring it up again.

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** Maybe his mother was one of those smooth-headed Klingons? Presumably after the third or tenth fellow warrior got killed for making YourMom jokes about it, they felt he was BadAss badass enough not to bring it up again.
25th Oct '16 7:55:47 AM Bense
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** Well, she did manage to get the drop on McCoy by turning into Kirk. Kirk points out that Martia doesn't seem to have any reason to stay in his form. Her response is just "I like it here," so maybe she's not exactly [[AxeCrazy firing on all thrusters]], if you take my meaning. In any case, the commandant seems to have realized which one was Kirk before he shot Martia, so turning into someone else wouldn't have helped her any.

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** Well, she did manage to get the drop on McCoy [=McCoy=] by turning into Kirk. Kirk points out that Martia doesn't seem to have any reason to stay in his form. Her response is just "I like it here," so maybe she's not exactly [[AxeCrazy firing on all thrusters]], if you take my meaning. In any case, the commandant seems to have realized which one was Kirk before he shot Martia, so turning into someone else wouldn't have helped her any.
21st Oct '16 12:56:25 AM mcb359
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Added DiffLines:

** Even if Martia was thinking should could try to pretend to be Kirk and be rescued when the Enterprise arrived, it wouldn't have worked; the real Kirk was wearing a Veridian patch on his back, which the Enterprise used to find him and presumably used to get a transporter lock on him. Martia didn't know about that, or she figured the Enterprise's sensors wouldn't be able to distinguish between a group of Klingons, two humans and one changling pretending to be a human.
21st Oct '16 12:52:09 AM mcb359
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Added DiffLines:

*** Cartwright probably was court martialled. Then his memory was wiped and he was left running a creole restaurant in New Orleans...
1st Oct '16 9:03:00 PM WiddershinsDaughter
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Added DiffLines:

** There are both guided and unguided torpedoes in modern warfare. In fact, in general unguided torpedoes are more common since they are smaller, lighter, and considerably less mechanically complex, allowing more to be carried by the same launching platform. Sub-launched torpedoes are guided because they're the primary ship-to-ship weapon of a submarine.
11th Sep '16 6:59:06 AM thespecialneedsgroup
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** It's also a bit of a running joke for ''Franchise/StarTrek'' in general, and this film in particular--it's the TropeNamer for InTheOriginalKlingon, after all. Later in the film, Spock claims to be a descendant of Literature/Sherlock Holmes (and this is speculation, but I've always assumed that he referring to his ''father's'' side of the family). Chang and Spock, incidentally, were [[BorrowedCatchphrase borrowing this joke]] from Chekov, who was known to claim that Russians were responsible for almost every technological or cultural advancement in human history[[note]]Which, itself, was a parody of a real-world stereotype about soviets[[/note]]. Interestingly, Chekov's claim that Cinderella is a Russian story--his only instance of using this gag in all of ''The Undiscovered Country''--it's actually a subtle subversion. Russians ''do'' kind of have their own unique version of Cinderella: "Vasilisa The Beautiful."

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** It's also a bit of a running joke for ''Franchise/StarTrek'' in general, and this film in particular--it's the TropeNamer for InTheOriginalKlingon, after all. Later in the film, Spock claims to be a descendant of Literature/Sherlock Holmes Literature/SherlockHolmes (and this is speculation, but I've always assumed that he referring to his ''father's'' side of the family). Chang and Spock, incidentally, were [[BorrowedCatchphrase borrowing this joke]] from Chekov, who was known to claim that Russians were responsible for almost every technological or cultural advancement in human history[[note]]Which, itself, was a parody of a real-world stereotype about soviets[[/note]]. Interestingly, Chekov's claim that Cinderella is a Russian story--his only instance of using this gag in all of ''The Undiscovered Country''--it's actually a subtle subversion. Russians ''do'' kind of have their own unique version of Cinderella: "Vasilisa The Beautiful."
11th Sep '16 6:58:28 AM thespecialneedsgroup
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** It's also a bit of a running joke for ''Franchise/StarTrek'' in general, and this film in particular--it's the TropeNamer for InTheOriginalKlingon, after all. Later in the film, Spock claims to be a descendant of Literature/Sherlock Holmes (and this is speculation, but I've always assumed that he referring to his ''father's'' side of the family). Chang and Spock, incidentally, were [[BorrowedCatchphrase borrowing this joke]] from Chekov, who was known to claim that Russians were responsible for almost every technological or cultural advancement in human history[[note]]Which, itself, was a parody of a real-world stereotype about soviets[[/note]].

to:

** It's also a bit of a running joke for ''Franchise/StarTrek'' in general, and this film in particular--it's the TropeNamer for InTheOriginalKlingon, after all. Later in the film, Spock claims to be a descendant of Literature/Sherlock Holmes (and this is speculation, but I've always assumed that he referring to his ''father's'' side of the family). Chang and Spock, incidentally, were [[BorrowedCatchphrase borrowing this joke]] from Chekov, who was known to claim that Russians were responsible for almost every technological or cultural advancement in human history[[note]]Which, itself, was a parody of a real-world stereotype about soviets[[/note]]. Interestingly, Chekov's claim that Cinderella is a Russian story--his only instance of using this gag in all of ''The Undiscovered Country''--it's actually a subtle subversion. Russians ''do'' kind of have their own unique version of Cinderella: "Vasilisa The Beautiful."
11th Sep '16 6:34:23 AM thespecialneedsgroup
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** It's also a bit of a running joke in ''Franchise/StarTrek'' in general, and this film in particular--it's the TropeNamer for InTheOriginalKlingon, after all. Later in the film, Spock claims to be a descendant of Literature/Sherlock Holmes (and this is speculation, but I've always assumed that he referring to his ''father's'' side of the family). Chang and Spock, incidentally, were [[BorrowedCatchphrase borrowing this joke]] from Chekov, who was known to claim that Russians were responsible for almost every technological or cultural advancement in human history[[note]]Which, itself, was a parody of a real-world stereotype about soviets[[/note]].

to:

** It's also a bit of a running joke in for ''Franchise/StarTrek'' in general, and this film in particular--it's the TropeNamer for InTheOriginalKlingon, after all. Later in the film, Spock claims to be a descendant of Literature/Sherlock Holmes (and this is speculation, but I've always assumed that he referring to his ''father's'' side of the family). Chang and Spock, incidentally, were [[BorrowedCatchphrase borrowing this joke]] from Chekov, who was known to claim that Russians were responsible for almost every technological or cultural advancement in human history[[note]]Which, itself, was a parody of a real-world stereotype about soviets[[/note]].
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