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*** See just below:
* Jenner's plan was doomed from the beginning because he did not know enough. First, living in the Rosebush longer was not only immoral (which he knew and didn't care about), but also impossible since N.I.M.H. agents were coming soon (and that he did ''not'' know). Later, he wants to get the Stone. But all he knows is that it's a magical stone with telekinesic powers. He doesn't know about the "courage of the heart".
* Jenner's plan was doomed from the beginning because he did not know enough. First, living in the Rosebush longer was not only immoral (which he knew and didn't care about), but also impossible since N.I.M.H. agents were coming soon (and that he did ''not'' know). Later, he wants to get the Stone. But all he knows is that it's a magical stone with telekinesic powers. He doesn't know about the "courage of the heart".
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*** He is evil, though, so the courage of his heart is corrupted.
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* When the rats and cats are rescued from the burning lab near the end of ''The Secret of NIMH 2: Timmy To The Rescue'' you will notice (probably long after the credits roll) that none of the animals Martin mutated/spliced were rescued.
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** Jeremy is a crow, which are also attracted to sparklies. Also, he's not shown being dumb, just an excitable klutz.
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* The two cats survive the elevator falling, audibly crashing a few seconds after Timmy escapes it. They then come back to chase him (where they fall down the elevator shaft again). Timmy lampshades this turn of events, that they could come back unharmed after the fall. But the elevator is an explicit ACME product, and while ACME products are always failing in horrific ways they never actually cause long-standing or highly-disabling damage.
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* The two cats survive the elevator falling, despite it audibly crashing a few seconds after Timmy escapes it.escapes. They then come back to chase him (where they fall down the elevator shaft again). Timmy lampshades this turn of events, that they could come back unharmed after the fall. But the elevator is an explicit ACME product, and while ACME products are always failing in horrific ways they never actually cause long-standing or highly-disabling damage.
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* The two cats survive the elevator falling, audibly crashing a few seconds after Timmy escapes it. They then come back to chase him (where they fall down the elevator shaft again). Timmy lampshades this turn of events, that they could come back unharmed after the fall. But the elevator is an explicit ACME product, and while ACME products are always failing in horrific ways they never actually cause long-standing or highly-disabling damage.
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*** Jenner was many things, but cowardly was definitely not one of them.
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* Jeremy maybe dumb for a corvid, but he most definitely has their universal attraction to sparklies.
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* Jeremy maybe may be dumb for a corvid, but he most definitely has their universal attraction to sparklies.
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* Jeremy must have a little magpie in him, with his attraction to sparklies.
* When I was a kid, I always thought the weird images in the "our world began changing" sequence were supposed to be pain-induced hallucinations the rats were experiencing--just abstract nightmare images with no rhyme or reason. It was only after not having seen the movie for several years--and learning more about biology in the meantime--that I realized the twisty ladder-like structures were supposed to be DNA strands being disrupted.
* When I was a kid, I always thought the weird images in the "our world began changing" sequence were supposed to be pain-induced hallucinations the rats were experiencing--just abstract nightmare images with no rhyme or reason. It was only after not having seen the movie for several years--and learning more about biology in the meantime--that I realized the twisty ladder-like structures were supposed to be DNA strands being disrupted.
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* Jeremy must have maybe dumb for a little magpie in him, with his corvid, but he most definitely has their universal attraction to sparklies.
* When I was a kid, I always thought the weird images in the "our world began changing" sequence were supposed to be pain-induced hallucinations the rats were experiencing--just abstract nightmare images with no rhyme or reason. It was only after not having seen the movie for several years--and learning more about biology in the meantime--that I realized the twisty ladder-like structures were supposed to be DNA strands beingdisrupted.disrupted, mutated...and as they changed, so did the way the rats viewed their world.
* When I was a kid, I always thought the weird images in the "our world began changing" sequence were supposed to be pain-induced hallucinations the rats were experiencing--just abstract nightmare images with no rhyme or reason. It was only after not having seen the movie for several years--and learning more about biology in the meantime--that I realized the twisty ladder-like structures were supposed to be DNA strands being
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* When I was a kid, I always thought the weird images in the "our world began changing" sequence were supposed to be pain-induced hallucinations the rats were experiencing--just abstract nightmare images with no rhyme or reason. It was only after not having seen the movie for several years--and learning more about biology in the meantime--that I realized the twisty ladder-like structures were supposed to be DNA strands being disrupted.
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* The reason Timmy has to be the hero in the sequel is that if Martin was the hero, Timmy wouldn't care enough to do a FaceHeelTurn, breaking the SelfFulfillingProphecy. Of course, that makes Timmy's hero status EVEN MORE arbitrary.
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* The reason Timmy has to be the hero in the sequel is that if Martin was the hero, Timmy wouldn't care enough to do a FaceHeelTurn, breaking the SelfFulfillingProphecy. Of course, that That makes Timmy's hero status EVEN MORE arbitrary.
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* More sad than horror, but Jeremy's "Miss Right" is no where to be found in the sequel, nor does she get so much as a mentioning, suggesting the two may no longer be together. Keeping in mind she acted as [[ButtMonkey Jeremy's]] one [[ThrowTheDogABone Bone Throwing]] in the first film, it comes off a little saddening for the poor crow.
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* More sad than horror, but Jeremy's "Miss Right" is no where to be found in the sequel, nor does she get so much as a mentioning, suggesting the two may no longer be together. Keeping in mind she She acted as [[ButtMonkey Jeremy's]] one [[ThrowTheDogABone Bone Throwing]] in the first film, so it comes off a little saddening for the poor crow.
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* Why was Jenner so determined to keep the rats from leaving anyway? You could argue that he desperately wanted to rule, but he could've ruled somewhere else too, not to mention that he knew NIMH was coming and would likely take him back to a life of imprisonment or death.
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* Why was Jenner so determined to keep the rats from leaving anyway? You could argue that he desperately wanted to rule, but he could've ruled somewhere else too, not to mention that and he knew NIMH was coming and would likely take him back to a life of imprisonment or death.
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* The male characters who play a significant role in Mrs. Brisby's ordeal in the film (save for Mr. Ages and Nicodemus) have names starting with "J". Jonathan, her husband. Jeremy the crow. Justin the guard captain. Jenner the BigBad.
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* The male characters who play a significant role in Mrs. Brisby's ordeal in the film (save for Mr. Ages and Nicodemus) have names starting with "J". Jonathan, her husband. Jeremy the crow. Justin the guard captain. Jenner the BigBad.BigBad.
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* The male characters who play a significant role in Mrs. Brisby's ordeal in the film(save for Mr. Ages and Nicodemus) have names starting with "J". Jonathan, her husband. Jeremy the crow. Justin the guard captain. Jenner the BigBad.
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* The male characters who play a significant role in Mrs. Brisby's ordeal in the film(save film (save for Mr. Ages and Nicodemus) have names starting with "J". Jonathan, her husband. Jeremy the crow. Justin the guard captain. Jenner the BigBad.
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* The male characters who play a significant role in Mrs. Brisbee's ordeal in the film(save for Mr. Ages and Nicodemus) have names starting with "J". Jonathan, her husband. Jeremy the crow. Justin the guard captain. Jenner the BigBad.
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* The male characters who play a significant role in Mrs. Brisbee's Brisby's ordeal in the film(save for Mr. Ages and Nicodemus) have names starting with "J". Jonathan, her husband. Jeremy the crow. Justin the guard captain. Jenner the BigBad.
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*** Except that [[ArcWords ''Courage of the heart is very rare. The stone has a power when it's there.'']] Jenner was ultimately a coward and probably wouldn't have been able to use the stone effectively.
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*** Except that [[ArcWords ''Courage of the heart is very rare. The stone has a power when it's there.'']] Jenner was ultimately a coward and probably wouldn't have been able to use the stone effectively.effectively.
* The male characters who play a significant role in Mrs. Brisbee's ordeal in the film(save for Mr. Ages and Nicodemus) have names starting with "J". Jonathan, her husband. Jeremy the crow. Justin the guard captain. Jenner the BigBad.
* The male characters who play a significant role in Mrs. Brisbee's ordeal in the film(save for Mr. Ages and Nicodemus) have names starting with "J". Jonathan, her husband. Jeremy the crow. Justin the guard captain. Jenner the BigBad.
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** Also, Jenner was willing to fight NIMH. If he had stolen the Stone, it isn't hard to imagine he would have won.
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** Also, Jenner was willing to fight NIMH. If he had stolen the Stone, it isn't hard to imagine he would have won.won.
*** Except that [[ArcWords ''Courage of the heart is very rare. The stone has a power when it's there.'']] Jenner was ultimately a coward and probably wouldn't have been able to use the stone effectively.
*** Except that [[ArcWords ''Courage of the heart is very rare. The stone has a power when it's there.'']] Jenner was ultimately a coward and probably wouldn't have been able to use the stone effectively.
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* If the process the rats went through slows the aging process, why does Nicodemus (who was presumably the same age as the others when NIMH took him) look like he's about a hundred years old? Magic (or psychic powers, or whatever) appears to be physically taxing, judging by Mrs. Brisby's exhaustion after using the amulet, and he seems to use it almost constantly.
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* Jeremy must have a little magpie in him, with his attraction to sparklies.
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* More sad than horror, but Jeremy's "Miss Right" is no where to be found in the sequel, nor does she get so much as a mentioning, suggesting the two may no longer be together. Keeping in mind this was [[ButtMonkey Jeremy's]] one [[ThrowTheDogABone Bone Throwing]] in the first film, it comes off a little saddening for the poor crow.
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* More sad than horror, but Jeremy's "Miss Right" is no where to be found in the sequel, nor does she get so much as a mentioning, suggesting the two may no longer be together. Keeping in mind this was she acted as [[ButtMonkey Jeremy's]] one [[ThrowTheDogABone Bone Throwing]] in the first film, it comes off a little saddening for the poor crow.
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* More sad than horror, but Jeremy's "Miss Right" is no where to be found in the sequel, nor does she get so much as a mentioning, suggesting the two may no longer be together. Keeping in mind this was [[ButtMonkey Jeremy's]] one [[ThrowTheDogABone Bone Throwing]] in the first film, it comes off a little saddening for the poor crow.
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** Not just that, but what happened to the rats and mice was based on ''real-life experiments''. They were controversial, but they ''existed''.
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* [[MadScienceLaboratory NIMH is a real world organization.]]
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Nightmare Fuel cleanup; see thread for reference
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** There's also a "Quickthaw" variant of the same scene: Imagine showing up for work in NIMH one day and several other scientists ''who may have been your colleagues'' capture and forcibly experiment upon you. When it's all said and done you are left as [[AndIMustScream a canine in a human's body]]. HighOctaneNightmareFuel and premium grade ParanoiaFuel at the same time. And it isn't a whole lot better to think they might have ''volunteered'' for this experiment.
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** There's also a "Quickthaw" variant of the same scene: Imagine showing up for work in NIMH one day and several other scientists ''who may have been your colleagues'' capture and forcibly experiment upon you. When it's all said and done you are left as [[AndIMustScream a canine in a human's body]]. HighOctaneNightmareFuel and premium grade ParanoiaFuel at the same time. And it isn't a whole lot better to think they might have ''volunteered'' for this experiment.
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[[AC:FridgeBrilliance]]
* The reason Timmy has to be the hero in the sequel is that if Martin was the hero, Timmy wouldn't care enough to do a FaceHeelTurn, breaking the SelfFulfillingProphecy. Of course, that makes Timmy's hero status EVEN MORE arbitrary.
* The reason Timmy has to be the hero in the sequel is that if Martin was the hero, Timmy wouldn't care enough to do a FaceHeelTurn, breaking the SelfFulfillingProphecy. Of course, that makes Timmy's hero status EVEN MORE arbitrary.
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** also, Jenner was willing to fight NIMH. if he had stolen the Stone, it isn't hard to imagine he would't have won.
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** also, Also, Jenner was willing to fight NIMH. if If he had stolen the Stone, it isn't hard to imagine he would't would have won.
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* FridgeLogic: Why was Jenner so determined to keep the rats from leaving anyway? You could argue that he desperately wanted to rule, but he could've ruled somewhere else too, not to mention that he knew NIMH was coming and would likely take him back to a life of imprisonment or death.
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*Why was Jenner so determined to keep the rats from leaving anyway? You could argue that he desperately wanted to rule, but he could've ruled somewhere else too, not to mention that he knew NIMH was coming and would likely take him back to a life of imprisonment or death.
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[[AC:FridgeHorror]]
* The much disavowed sequel to ''TheSecretOfNimh'', ''The Secret of NIMH 2: Timmy to the Rescue'' has one particularly disturbing FridgeHorror moment. [[spoiler: It is when the lab catches fire and the firefighters break open a cage to free several labcoat clad men (presumably scientists) who act and move like dogs]]. It is not scary as a little kid, but once you know some history, several ''very'' unpleasant instances of human experimentation come to mind.
** There's also a "Quickthaw" variant of the same scene: Imagine showing up for work in NIMH one day and several other scientists ''who may have been your colleagues'' capture and forcibly experiment upon you. When it's all said and done you are left as [[AndIMustScream a canine in a human's body]]. HighOctaneNightmareFuel and premium grade ParanoiaFuel at the same time. And it isn't a whole lot better to think they might have ''volunteered'' for this experiment.
*** What if they made you a man in a dog's body?
** Another example of a "Freeze-by-Time" one, in which you have to know a bit about animal behavior, is especially terrifying; animals, even domestic species, don't just go to people naturally. You have to condition and imprint and handle these animals, especially at a young age, before they look up to a human as someone to trust. Wild animals will avoid people, even if they have food. Most people think the alley cats from before were just that; stray cats. But, their trust of a human, and their willingness to follow him, can only mean one thing; ''these were once someone's pets, and they're'' experimenting ''on them.'' Not only that, but the fact that all you see to try to bring in cats was a bowl of food for them, and they weren't wearing gloves in case the cats scratched them, meant that very docile, pet cats, ''were what they were after.'' After all, they've been studying mental health, and this has been known for a while.
* The much disavowed sequel to ''TheSecretOfNimh'', ''The Secret of NIMH 2: Timmy to the Rescue'' has one particularly disturbing FridgeHorror moment. [[spoiler: It is when the lab catches fire and the firefighters break open a cage to free several labcoat clad men (presumably scientists) who act and move like dogs]]. It is not scary as a little kid, but once you know some history, several ''very'' unpleasant instances of human experimentation come to mind.
** There's also a "Quickthaw" variant of the same scene: Imagine showing up for work in NIMH one day and several other scientists ''who may have been your colleagues'' capture and forcibly experiment upon you. When it's all said and done you are left as [[AndIMustScream a canine in a human's body]]. HighOctaneNightmareFuel and premium grade ParanoiaFuel at the same time. And it isn't a whole lot better to think they might have ''volunteered'' for this experiment.
*** What if they made you a man in a dog's body?
** Another example of a "Freeze-by-Time" one, in which you have to know a bit about animal behavior, is especially terrifying; animals, even domestic species, don't just go to people naturally. You have to condition and imprint and handle these animals, especially at a young age, before they look up to a human as someone to trust. Wild animals will avoid people, even if they have food. Most people think the alley cats from before were just that; stray cats. But, their trust of a human, and their willingness to follow him, can only mean one thing; ''these were once someone's pets, and they're'' experimenting ''on them.'' Not only that, but the fact that all you see to try to bring in cats was a bowl of food for them, and they weren't wearing gloves in case the cats scratched them, meant that very docile, pet cats, ''were what they were after.'' After all, they've been studying mental health, and this has been known for a while.
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** also, Jenner was willing to fight NIMH. if he had stolen the Stone, it isn't hard to imagine he would have won.
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** also, Jenner was willing to fight NIMH. if he had stolen the Stone, it isn't hard to imagine he would would't have won.
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