Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Hit-and-Run: Changed "nobody would believe" (that different races couldn't get on) to "many people wouldn't believe", based on their personal experience. Look, I don't want to preach, but racism isn't actually a universal rule of life even in the real world. It is, after all, far more to do with perceived "otherness" than with objective reality, so saying harmony never occurs and is in fact impossible in any circumstances has, in my view, Unfortunate Implications. And, of course, people's personal experiences differ more than you think.

I am probably a little hypersensitive to this as I have had encounters with racists, and their second line of defence is always that racism is simply a law of nature, and thus that there is no point combating it. (I want to make it clear that I am in no way implying that the original poster was one of those people or was trying to push such a bandwagon.)

MCE: One thing that might be worth pointing out in the page description is just now dangerous indulging in Fantastic Racism can be. For example
Random racist '"Look that guy has horns and supernatural death powers! Get him!"

J Morgan: I really think somebody jumped on the "Wolf = Black Man" thing a little too hard in The 10th Kingdom. Did it ever occur to them that he acts like a raving sex maniac for practically the entire movie? Besides that, he's a werewolf. Do the research — people were burning suspected werewolves at the stake for years before Africans came along.

Ununnilium: ...this is not at all what the original YKTTW Fantastic Racism discussion was about; that was about fantasy races/aliens/mutants/whatnot being used as a metaphor for "real" racism. This content should probably be moved off somewhere else, IMHO.

Later: Unfortunate Implications seems to be this trope. Anyone object to me moving the examples of this there and turning this into the above?

Even later: All righty, then...

Ununnilium: "Disturbingly, Hermione's campaign is depicted as naive; and the series implies that house elves are better off as slaves." I really gotta disagree. Dobby certainly seemed to be better off free. The objection of the house-elves themselves seemed more like a problem of theirs. IMHO, the problem with Hermione's campaign was less what she was doing it about and more how she was doing it; it can be compared to well-meaning Soap Box Sadie types who hammer on about a certain issue to the point of driving off those genuinely interested in it.

Whitewings SPEW is... odd. It's not entirely clear whether or not house-elves can become a free people; Hermione's campaign comes off (at least to me) as a combination of Soap Box Sadie and Did Not Do The Research.

Tricksterson: To me it's a matter of Values Dissonance. It's not that House Elves are better off as slaves it's that they don't see themselves as slaves. To them serving others just comes as naturally as having big ears. Dobby could be seen from this viewpoint as having been driven insane (which some of his other behavior seems to indicate as well) by an unnaturally cruel set of masters. Not unlike Discworld Igors.

Ununnilium: Pulling out: "(I believe this quote is a gay reference. Mutant powers in X-Men generally manifest during adolescence, supporting this view.)" ...because if you want to comment on something, comment on the discussion page. If you want to make a change to the entry, make a change.

Doctrain66: The Planet of the Apes one belongs in Wild Mass Guessing, based on how weird it is.

That Other 1 Dude: When I saw that I just assumed it was a Wiki Vandal.

  • This editor always thought Lycanthropy in the Potterverse was supposed to represent an STD.

  • Given that the Laguz suck horribly as units, some would question their equality.
    • You say that even though the Laguz Kings will feed you your spinal cord with a side of extra chunky brain salsa?

  • This could be argued to be less racism and more a self-preservation instinct. Megalomanical tendencies, dangerous experiment and explosions seem to come along with the transition to sparkhood, as well as an urge to war with other sparks for dominance. This isn't prejudice; the entire world revolves around the principle that sparks are dangerous. Constructs are less legitimate targets, however.
    • One may wonder how much of that danger is a self-fufilling prophecy with a healthy twist of "I'll show them, I'll show them all!!!!" on the part of people who would be mostly harmless if left be.
    • It depends on how often you get that for OTHER reasons, and what crazy idea the Sparks get. Considering the amount who blow themselves up...or get blown up. ("He threw a bomb at me!")

  • This troper once actually heard a player bellow out "I'm tired of all this prejudice against half-orcs!" The chief irony here was that he was playing a stereotyped D&D halfling: an obnoxious sociopathic thief. Like many people playing this character trope, his character was relentlessly bullied by the other characters and he cheerfully gave it right back to them, stealing from them, picking fights with NP Cs, being crude and rude around important people, deliberately trashing plans and strategies, and spoiling dramatic moments with schtick in and out of character.
  • The gnomes also get it bad. I mean, they're possibly being retconned out of existence, and being moved into the monster manual at that, because nobody knows what to do with them. A race of specialized illusionists and pranksters doesn't really fit anymore. (I play a gnome...I get picked up and picked on a lot. Often with a 'no, I don't ACTUALLY toss him...)
  • This troper admits to averting fantastic racism by never playing humans if she doesn't have to. Of course, this is arguably an inversion since she doesn't think very highly of humans, what with their lack of stat bonuses or inherent powers.

Conversation in the Main Page.

  • That said, this troper has seen a reading (a class mate is doing it for an assignment and all) where Mc Bean basically committed cultural genocide and is Hitler. Also, that the Sneetches didn't give up their racism- they didn't start accepting the others for what they were, they just forgot who was who. Sort of like a Clockwork Orange- does it count as reforming when you're forced into it?

"Cultural genocide"? Come on.

  • Even Vimes has his limits, however. The one line that he has not crossed has been his anti-vampire stance. At least until Thud.


Unfortunately, considering that nearly all the characters are either lily-white, green, or totally inhuman rather than any real-world shade of brown, and the first guy to die is black, fighting racism metaphorically occasionally comes off somewhat...awkwardly.

...yeah, the reason why they don't look like black people is because it's a metaphor.

HeartBurn Kid: Is it just me, or is that Dungeons & Dragons entry a little bit flame-y? I mean, seriously, it's all but calling D&D players closet racists...
  • Aslo: Speciisism, unlike racism can often be justified in fantasy. The Ogres for instance are stupid and inferior by design. While other races have strong violent tendencies or ingrained xenophopia. This troper finds the way people equate speciesism with racism very annoying!

Erpegis - A note: The article used to say
Half-orcs are the "polacks" of the D&D game, strong, stupid, brutish, and usually unbathed.

WHY THIS WAS ALLOWED? That was the first ethnic slur I've seen on this wiki, and of course it had to be directed at my nation. Thank you very fucking much.
In World of Warcraft, many players dislike gnomes for two reasons: First, their voices are squeaky and annoying. Second, they just don't really seem to fit with the rest of the milieu. Granted, the Draenei are also very high-tech, but they're from an entirely different dimension. The gnomes are from Azeroth, but their technological development is centuries ahead of anyone else. And they also suffer from a mild case of Uncanny Valley, or perhaps a failed attempt at Grotesque Cute.
  • Draenei aren't really high-tech. And I've actually seen more hate and accusations of being "out of place" aimed at them than at gnomes. (Of course, a good deal of that has been from gnome players...attempt at diversion by the gnome fanbase, perhaps?)

Given how any instance of discrimination or tension between fictional groups or races, no matter what the circumstance, appears to be linked to here and not just the expy-Aesops anymore, I felt the need to put in a bit of anti-snark-balance at the page's top.
BritBllt: Removing this bit of natter and replacing with a more truncated note about Cyborg's line...
  • What's even more disturbing is that, in this episode, the Titans embark on a mission to wipe out a race of robots, needing only the word of the racist that they're bent on subjugating all organic life (because they "think they're superior"). The resulting horribly Family-Unfriendly Aesop seems to be that racism is bad, but genocide is acceptable, depending on What Measure Is a Non-Human?.
  • Also, Cyborg, who's black, says he understands, in an avoidance that was so blatant it may not have been meant to be taken seriously.
    Starfire:You know how it feels?
    Cyborg: Sure I do. *brief pause* I'm part robot.
  • C'mon, that had to be played straight. Really: if an eight-foot-tall, half robotic teenager walked into any given setting, nobody is gonna say "hey look, a black kid!", especially since externally, only about half his face retains any degree of human pigmentation.
  • And I doubt Cyborg really wants to have to explain human racism to Starfire.
The first one is really either a Headscratchers, a case Wild Mass Guessing or Alternate Character Interpretation or, at best, a Broken Aesop. The rest of it's just natter and discussion. Personally, I think Cyborg was talking about racism (he did spend most of his life as a human), and he just didn't want to spoil Starfire's idealistic view of humans, but the best solution is to just present the line as it is, without any interpretation.