This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Rename Sasami Syndrome launched as Fan-Preferred Couple: From YKTTW
Working Title: Rename Better Than Canon... again: From YKTTW
Jisu: Deleted the Ayu-bashing. Uguu~!
- There are those who suspect Rumiko Takahashi resorted to intentional Flanderization in order to avoid this problem, after fan demand obliged her to switch the Official Couple of Urusei Yatsura. Consider who Shampoo most resembles from the earlier work.
Sunder The Gold: Just to be straight for those now tuning in, Takahashi had originally intended Ataru to end up with Shinobu (Akane's proto-Expy), but Lum (Shampoo's proto-Expy) proved more popular, thus forcing her hand. However, I don't see how you can call it Flanderization if she created Akane and Shampoo with their characterizations in mind and wrote the story with an eye to her planned pairings. If Shampoo is obviously a bad match for Ranma, it's not because Takahashi changed her to be that way — she created her that way from the get-go. Thus, Shampoo's not a victim of Flanderization, she's always been that bitchy and shrewish underneath her good looks and big smiles.
SAMAS: I think he means Flanderization of Lum's concept.
Discussion transfered from Sasami Syndrome to here:
Nezumi: Hrm... In Card Captor Sakura, it's common, especially among Sakura/Tomoyo shippers, to point out that Syaoran is a poor match for Sakura, and Tomoyo would be better... but I'm not certain if it's common enough to add to the main entry
Moved from main page, author unknown:
//Well, this is surely a matter of opinion (look at us, we're shipping), but some of us thought any other female character in the show who gets more than two spoken lines would be less grotesquely ill-suited for him than Asuka, up to and including Ritsuko, who is twice his age and sleeping with his father... and this probably belongs in a discussion page, come to think of it. Never mind.
Ununnilium: I agree, especially Misato.
(random passer-by): Tsunami isn't just a tree-goddess. It is eventually revealed, at least in one of the continuities that she, Washuu, and the mysterious Lady Tokimi are literal goddeses, or, if you prefer, "higher dimensional beings," tens of thousands of years old and capable of creating and destroying worlds.
Ununnilium: Yeah, but that level of detail isn't necessary.
The Defenestrator: Is this trope really suggesting that Tenchi should hook up with Sasami?
osh: No. Ignoring her peculiarities, the main force behind the trope is Sasami always has the most sedate, realistic personality. The idea being everyone else is fairly wild and unpredictable.
Squeal: just for the record - the Ranma example I removed was factually wrong - Ryoga actually switches to Akari almost immediately (the only character in the manga to do so), and Konatsu can't fit the trope being, basically, a comic relief Raised By Wolves character with a rather troublesome inability to deal with the modern world.
Zeke: Tina? Seriously? I like her fine, but I don't think she's a better fit for Kaoru than Aoi is, let alone a clearly better one. As a character (if not as a drinker), she's just too lightweight.
(Later) Okay, no one defended the example, so I'm taking it out.
Lale: Pretty much nobody in Evangelion, including Shinji, would be unhappy with any of their romantic possibilities because of how seriously messed up their world is. There's a problem with every love interest, including Shinji's.
Steelhead Tsotha: I understand where you are coming from, but Rei doesn't show a tenth of the hostility toward Shinji as Asuka does... R and S are pretty much the ultimate case of Sasami Syndrome.
Lale: Which is why R/S is more boring.
Angelic Monkey: There's an example of this in School Rumble. According to the fans, it's gotten extremely grinding to watch how the author forces the protagonist to still go after Tenma, when the blonde girl would be a perfect match. I'm sadly not familiar enough with the series to know the names of all the characters. Could someone look into it?
dkellis: School Rumble is a bizarre Love Dodecahedron all on its own. The protagonist in question is Harima, who is obsessed over Tenma. Tenma has no idea that Harima likes her. The blonde girl is Eri, who's a Tsundere who keeps getting into situations that throw her together with Harima. Then there are even more situations which throw Harima together with Tenma's sister Yakumo, who might also be more suited for him than Eri or Tenma, depending on which shipper you're talking to. And then there's also the oddly-interested school nurse...
I told you it was bizarre.
Vulpy: Hey, I, for one, liked Lyon a great deal. A little bit of The Cape, sure, but she was more subdued...and "felt" more deep...than Miakis. Then again, I've always dug on the Defector from Decadence as a rule. Still, I won't edit the example because I don't doubt the troper's observation about the quantity of fanart. I'll just quietly question the sanity of deviantART contributors. ;)
TITO: I love Lyon. She has lots of personality and backstory going for her. While I know a lot of people likes to ship the Prince and Miakis (or Luserina, Roy, and even Lym for that matter), the description of Lyon in the main page as "annoying" and "little personality" seems a bit too subjective. I know that this is a very subjective trope, but still, I think that the "annoying" part should be taken out.
Calophi: Frankly I think this is a horrible trope name and is really subject to opinion rather than it being a trope. Something like Nice Girls Finish Last would be much more accurate, and would be much more specific to the main character not getting paired up with the "nice girl". Would it be possible to have a page with a less potentially controversial name and just forward Better Than Canon to it?
Seshi: Agreed on the trope name being a big reflection of what's wrong with this page. A lot of the examples on this page could use some major editing, at least. I'm a bit surprised to find outright bashing of pairings and characters in a trope entry. Can we state popular fan opinion without tropers being the judge on whether or not it's "right"? (Suikoden V example, I'm looking at you especially.)
Gloating Swine: Thirded on wrong trope name. It doesn't really describe the subject well enough. Needs something that points out that it's specific to shipping vs. plot, rather than just sounding like fanon alternatives to general discontinuity.
moved from Cut List: Calophi: Better Than Canon — It's opinion whether the pairings listed are better than canon, and the name is subject to controversy. I think the trope name should be changed to something like Nice Girls Finish Last to better emphasize the shows where the "suitable" girls for marriage are not paired off with the main character.
Fast Eddie: Suggest a rename in YKTTW. Pretty good case that it should be moved to Subjective Tropes.
Calophi: It has been done. I think with the rename it won't need to be in Subjective Tropes, because then it would be about nice girls not getting the guy instead of "this pairing is SOOO much better OMG".
Jisu: Yeah, as a purist, I'm not too fond of the name either.
Katsuhagi: I'd be happy to see it just be Sasami Syndrome again, and I thought the reasons for changing it were dubious in the first place.
Ununnilium: I'd way rather have it be Sasami Syndrome. That name fits and is better than these names.
Citizen: I approve of Nice Girls Finish Last. I don't want to see a return to Sasami Syndrome.
Charred Knight: Considering that the official statement is that Tenchi has a harem ending I don't see how Sasami/Tsunami is an example.
Red Viking: I don't know about Nice Girls Finish Last. I get what you're trying to say, but not every match up is with a kind-hearted girl. Better then Canon is more indicative of who the fans feel is a better match for a certain character, who could be anyone.
Tanto: But the name also doesn't have anything to do with relationships. It's extremely generic, to the point that it doesn't really give any indication as to what the trope is actually about.
I don't care what we change it to, but this name makes my eyes hurt...
Red Viking: Well, how about Screw Canon Pairings or Screw The Official Couple? It's much more indicative of what this trope is about.
Antheia: The Evangelion example is mostly Natter, so I cut it. Besides, can this trope even be subverted?
- Subverted in, you guess it, Neon Genesis Evangelion where Rei Ayanami is much less hostile towards Shinji Ikari than his official love interest... and then it is revealed that Rei and Shinji are blood relatives.
- "Much less hostile"? Dude, she's practically catatonic! The only character you could say Dude, She's Like in a Coma while she's awake. That is healthy?
- Healthier than Asuka who, in the Lighter and Softer Angelic Days, expresses her feelings about Shinji by dumping scalding hot water on him. Shinji should have taken Misato when he had the chance.
- Maybe Maya? We don't KNOW that she's a lesbian, she's sane, she's not as squicky as Misato age-wise, and if Maya likes feminine, soft boys, Shinji would work well...
- In fact, even the aformentioned revelation is not enough for some shippers, including this one. See Abandon Ship for more details.
- "Much less hostile"? Dude, she's practically catatonic! The only character you could say Dude, She's Like in a Coma while she's awake. That is healthy?
Redkun: The Prince and Lyon are only the "semi-Official Couple" in Suikoden V? That's news to me, since in both 100% Completion endings, they end up together. And in the bad ending, he has a Heroic BSoD after she dies.
Lale: Waaaay to subjective to qualify: "Avatar: The Laster Airbender's primary fanon couple, Zuko and Katara, have been developing this attitude since the debut of the 2007 Book 3 Trailer
, but the sentiment has picked up steam with the DVD release of The Boiling Rock playing off of a key line in the episode along with big "Death of the Author" justifications. Particularly bad as series finale spoilers abound about how character relationships are more or less resolved thanks to the tie-in novel and post-series finale interviews <= REMEMBER this is the most definitive of statements about the characters and the story of Avatar as well as the future thereof." Aside from the fact that one sentence fragment after another makes that impossible to understand... a cliche Opposites Attract romance just because their V As play Star-Crossed Lovers on another show is not Better Than Canon.
See? Too subjective a debate.
Darmani: I was under the impression Better than Canon was with regards to how couples are perceived by a significant number of fandom. I not only stated how the fan idea of Zutara is considered better than Katara's canon love interest (and character arc) but provided examples in links. Zutara has been exceedingly popular in the fandom. The idea of the characters as a couple is at the very least well explored if not the most popular. I am not asserting Zutara IS better than canon merely that as of late the idea is put forward (after a loooong period where people assumed it was/would be canon)
Lale: How "significant"? Kataang is in the lead in DH's poll.
Rogue 7: For dedicated "shippers", it's probably about half the fandom. The majority may prefer Katara and Aang, but among the more rabid shipping community, it's very popular. Perhaps not a majority, but it's at the very least a third of the fandom in general, more concentrated among the shipping crowd.
Lale: They don't really fit the trope description, though. "Much better match"? Much better ship, to some fans, but they certainly wouldn't be happier together than with their canonical love interests.
Charred Knight: To the Zatara fans they would be, my understanding of this trope is the phenomenon in which fandom believes the the main couple owuld be happier with different people. Hence Better Than Canon.
Unknown Troper: But everyone who ships anti-Official Couple thinks that. Is there an instance in canon where Zuko responds to an emotional need of Katara in a way better than what Aang could do? Is there an instance where Katara responds to a need of Zuko's better than what Mai could do? The incident in the cave, you say, well yes, but notice how twelve episodes later, Zuko's betrayal still results in him getting a death threat from Katara. Fandom seems to be pretty evenly split about the Zuko/Katara/Aang triangle. Perhaps the Zutara faction is simply more vocal. Does 90% of fandom feel that Zutara is the One True Way? Do Zuko and Katara have a consistent, observable "jibe", that is to say, are they always obviously functional as a couple? Throwing flames and ice at each other may make for great UST, if these characters were a couple years older, but has there been any in-canon indication that Katara would be happier with Zuko than Aang? Anything that could at least debate the barrage of evidence for Kataang?
- huff* And so, I deleted the Avatar: The Last Airbender section. I could have lifted out the text ver batim and put it into have a dozen different articles. It gave no evidence to say why such and such a couple was better than what the writers seem to be going for, and served little more purpose than a "Zutara was here" carving on a ship.
However, I may go back and re-instate the sentence or so about Toph and Sokka's prospects.
Rogue 7: While Sokka and Suki vs. Toph undeniably counts, I'd say that the Katara/Zuko ship does as well. Zuko and Mai are clearly a couple. Aang and Katara less so, but they still count. A significant portion of the fans prefer Katara and Zuko over the other pairings. Hence, by definition, Katara and Zuko are Better Than Canon. They don't necessarily have a reason, but then probably a good two-thirds of ships in existence don't beyond perhaps "they look cute together." Lack of evidence has never stopped shippers before, and I don't think it should disqualify them from the trope.
Lale: Actually, Kataang is always ahead in all the "vs." polls I've seen. Toph/Sokka, probably due to Toph's status as a major character outranking Suki and Suki's long absence, actually does seem to be more widely preferred to Sokka/Suki, despite the age difference (reminiscent of the Sasami/Tenchi ur-example?). But all in all, this is a can of worms we do not to open.
- This troper, then and still a confirmed Kataang shipper, found the Zutara Ship Teasing of the finale to be so effective that it actually made him agree that the idea of a Zutara AU wouldn't be quite so far-fetched after all. Which was the exact opposite result the creators intended.
Lale: Conversation In The Main Page and not related to the trope..
Gerkuman: Yeah, I'm bringing up the name again. I had the idea that it'd be easier and less prickly for people to just rename this page 'Compatibility Ship'. I'm not sure that people will agree with me on that, but there we go.
Neo Chaos: I agree with renaming this trope. The current title is so generic that it oculd be used for any part of a plot that a fan doesn't agree with - for example, I recently saw this invoked in YTTKW, but in a context that wasn't about romantic pairings. Per the last discussion, I suggest Screw The Official Couple.
Lale: If it must be renamed: not all involve the Official Couple, anything that implies "screw your ship" sounds more prickly than "better ship," and "Better Than Canon" choices are hardly based on better compatibility.
Neo Chaos: How about Fan-Preferred Couple? Or how about Fanon Couple?
Danel: Removed a lot of natter from the Tales Of Phantasia example.
Freezer: Source for the caption pic: http://destikim.deviantart.com/art/Zutara-No-Aang-90482170
