This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Citizen: Removed
- Lovable Sex Maniac - Matrim "Bloody" Cauthon
Drow Lord: It's a cultural thing, but even her own son disapproved of her keeping Mat against his will. Still, the "Lovable" part disqualifies her anyway.
Peteman: Can I point out in the Mundane Utility entry that the Asha'man do that because they're soldiers and they need to be ready to kill people at a moment's notice? And the Aes Sedai don't allow such flippant uses because they run the risk of burning themselves out and even killing themselves. Meanwhile the men also risk this and they also risk going crazy, but the trainers don't mind and think of these as acceptable losses.
Charred Knight: I replaced the Trapped by Moutain Lion example to Faile being captured since that was much less relavant than Elayne being named Queen, but I kept the other example pointing out that it takes an entire book just to go anywhere. As for Egwene I suggest whoever wrote that re-read the entire series, as Egwene is reforming the entire Aes Sedai order, which is needed.
fleb: Much like Elayne's similarly political-maneuvering plotline, Egwene's is boring. But yeah, that's not really the criteria to qualify for TBML.
Drow Lord: Contemptible Cover? Which one?
Mystyc: Yeah, I don't know. Not to mention it's hidden down at the bottom of the list. I'm deleting it.
Lady Land: - While Andor and Mayene are ruled by women, there is no "Males are inferior" notions in the place. The only possible thing for that would be the all female Aes Sedai, but that's been thrown on it's head with the bonding issues between them and the Asha'men. - Removed
Names The Same: - I see no real tie between Lan and the Mega Man Battle Network character that needs to point this out, why is it here? - Removed
Medieval Stasis: - By the end of the series this no longer is in effect due to Rand's academies.
Citizen: That it was in effect up to that point surely counts for something, though. Moving on, I'm removing the stuff appended to Holding Back the Phlebotinum and putting my justification here to avoid it entering thread mode.
- How do you know that? The Seanchan have hundreds of damane too, many of them extremely experienced in fighting other channelers. Rand has hundreds of freshly trained rookie Asha'man with but a few dozen elite. Why should he risk a great portion of his relatively inexperienced force against an unknown, experienced quantity? The one major advantage Rand and the Asha'man has going for them are their sheer mobility and undetectability, and you should notice they were won said battle with a grossly disproportionate number of casualties on the side of the Seanchan.
- Now, the lack of surprise blowing up of damane barracks at night, that's Holding Back the Phlebotinum, but easily explainable by Rand's silly thing about women.
Charred Knight: Personally blowing up people in the forest? Fine, personally blowing up people in a city? That's Rape The Dog, Rand is the hero he can't do crap like having Asha'man blowing up cities just to kill people. As for the use of stealth that would take training which Rand doesn't have time to, and he sure as hell isn't going to teach people he doesn't trust how to Gentle him. In addition, given Rand's inability to kill women training his men to make quick surprise attacks on Damane would mentally destroy him. The only different way Rand could have done things (given the time) was to take most of his forces, and bring the fight to the Seanchan which would most likely destroy Ebou Dar, Tanicho, and other cities held by the Seanchan. Also I think Rand understands that the Seanchan are not really evil, but simply have a different view on things. Rand knows peace is possible, so their is no reason why Rand would turn to genocide. Most of the Seanchan are settlers, not warriors, by killing the Seanchan Rand wouldn't be a hero he would be Richard Rahl.
Citizen: You exaggerate my points. I was not talking about them blowing up cities or slaughtering Seanchan civilians. I meant them sneaking into the barracks (by Skimming or freezing the guards in place and just walking in) and whatnot and quietly killing the soldiers with the Power. There's not much "training in stealth" to be done, right? They can hold people in place with Air, knock out people they want to capture, make free use of Gateways, and so forth. Worrying about teaching them gentling is stupid; I really don't think that's something they don't know (or very complicated), and anyway, if they were attacking him, why gentle him when blowing stuff up is less risky and far more effective? What you say is the only other way is simply not the case. /// Okay, so book 11 reveals that he is interpreting a prophecy as maintaining the status quo with the Seanchan, but my point about him dangerously neglecting the Asha'man stands.
Terrafire: Actually, you'll note that he IS underutilizing all of his powers. He only brought FIFTY Ashaman and ...(I forget so I'm making a random number) three thousand soldiers in his entire war against the Seanchan(None of his 100,000+ Aiel, or the other 300+ Ashaman). He doesn't Callandor more than three times in the entire series.
Citizen: Let's establish what "pillow friends" count as. I say, not Bait-and-Switch Lesbians or Schoolgirl Lesbians, but yes to Author Appeal, Hide Your Lesbians, and Sitch Sexuality.
fleb: Yeah, those three tropes pretty much nail it.
fleb: Okay, yeah, Aran'gar is The Vamp, but she's also a Psycho Lesbian when she lets down her public face. Chatting up Graendal probably wasn't all an act.
Citizen: Including men in her fun kinda rules out the lesbian bit. Depraved Bisexual is more like it.
fleb: Has she actually done anything with guys? I'm thinking of the guy with the broken arm.
Citizen: Well, she did try to flirt/dance with Mat (and got pissed off when he ended up turning her down)...
fleb: The dance scene seemed like her usual manipulation, to get close to Mat for some Mind Control (or something evil).
Charred Knight: it's stated that her taste has been expanded since becoming a woman
- This Troper is just going to clear something up right now. The a'dam, the very concept of the damane, are supposed to inspire Squick. Its not about Author Appeal, its supposed to provoke revulsion of the Seanchan culture.
fleb: Natter, but as to the point... Just because something in a book is presented as Bad Bad Bad doesn't make it not Author Appeal. Rape is still listed on Author Appeal for Sword Of Truth.
Oh yeah, Action Girl. That'd require them to be more physical warriors, not primarily magic users. They can be awesome without being physically action-y. Aviendha's part of the Amazon Brigade so she's covered under that already.
fleb: The ta'veren thing is more You Can't Fight Fate and Winds of Destiny, Change!. It's only about story tropes from the meta perspective, and I don't think any character makes meta comments like that.
- Theory of Narrative Causality - In this series, this is literally a law of nature. Rand, Mat, and Perrin are ta'veren, aka 'Main Characters', meaning that the Pattern of space/time bends around them—or more often than not, bends them around it. Contrived Coincidence becomes an explicit superpower for them, in a surprisingly straight version of this trope. "The Pattern weaves as the Pattern wills."
The Sandman: I seriously disagree with the inclusion of Rand slagging the male Choedan Kal under What the Hell, Hero? and other related tropes. It seems to me that Rand had a damn good reason for doing it: that he was about to blow up reality, that maybe that sort of power was more temptation than he was willing to leave lying around (for himself or anybody else) and that in the end he doesn't need it to win. And besides, he can't win with it anyway; the female one is gone, so all he'd have access to is saidin. The last time somebody used saidin on its own to deal with the Dark One didn't go so well.
Gerontius I agree. I deleted one reference to this. The book clearly states that this was a "Good thing to do".
