Literature The Wheel Of Time Discussion

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Whitecroc
Topic
11:48:58 AM Jan 18th 2013
I really feel that the description should be rewritten - the tone doesn't really match the work in this case. I'd rather not touch something that's stood this long, however, and I'm not sure if I'd ever get around to doing it myself (for various reasons), but I just figured I'd throw it out there.
beagel
05:58:51 PM Aug 3rd 2013
edited by 70.33.253.44
As breezy language is a goal for this wiki, and this shouldn't be a self-demonstrating article (just imagine a self-demonstrating article for a work, that would be impossible to do. Awesome though.) i don't see the problem. Now if the process of making the rules more and more rigid and constricting (honestly i see stuff like notability on the horizon) continues, that's another thing...
Whitecroc
01:36:42 PM Aug 31st 2013
I personally prefer sticking to a neutral tone in work descriptions as doing otherwise can make the article confusing to people unfamiliar with the work, give the wrong idea about inserting opinions into the description, and ignores the fact that humour is very subjective. I'm not saying the article should be self-demonstrating, I'd just prefer a clearer overview of the series, free of the flippancy that is currently there.
liquidentropy
09:28:25 AM Sep 24th 2013
This was one of the first TV Tropes pages I encountered, and it much endeared me to the site. "Ta'veren, an old tongue word which means 'Main Characters'"? Classic.
Stormpigeon
Topic
12:51:18 PM Feb 11th 2012
I'm reading through the series at the moment and when I finish a book read the tropes page for it. Possible to get individual pages for each book? I've already read two spoilers by temptation.
Watashiwa
09:59:00 PM Feb 12th 2012
No, probably not. Wheel of Time is a pretty cohesive series, so having a page for each individual book would get repetitive fast. My recommendation is to stay off tvtropes when you're reading the books.
Watashiwa
Topic
10:24:29 AM Feb 11th 2012
edited by Watashiwa
Well this sucks. Ataricommunity.com went down a week ago (Feb. 4th), taking ISAM's parodies with it. Anyone know if they were hosted anywhere else?

EDIT: Crisis averted, it's back!
Ilidsor
09:44:52 AM Dec 12th 2012
Well it's gone again. Anybody have a working link now? Hopefully somebody thought of hosting it somewhere else after it went down the first time.
Iskro
Topic
04:43:50 PM Jan 15th 2012
Faux Symbolism. Perhaps this does not belong on the Wheel of Time page, or maybe it's a case of Your Mileage May Vary. The author spent a decade researching religions and myths so every character and every scene is symbolically exact. See Law of Conservation of Detail on the main page, it has a link detailing it. I do not think Faux Symbolism fits, as the author doesn't just add in names to make it seem more symbolic, such as naming a bad guy Lucifer or such things as Faux Symbolism has for examples. When he uses a symbolic name, the character's actions and descriptions fit the symbolism, making it not Faux at all. Furthermore, it's heavily implied that several characters are reincarnations of legendary people from our time, such as Mat is the reincarnation of Odin, Perrin is a reincarnation of Perun and Thor, Birgitte is Maid Marian and others, and of course, Rand is Jesus with magic, Played Straight and not just added in to be dramatic. What do others think?
unSilenced
02:03:03 PM May 6th 2012
I think that you're exactly correct. Of all series I've read, this is the most deeply symbolic, the most exhaustively researched. Further, to call Faux Symbolism is to miss the point rather spectacularly; this series is practically dripping Jung/Campbell. To eschew symbolism wouldn't work.
surgoshan
Topic
11:39:51 PM Jun 25th 2011
On the The Unfair Sex page, The Wheel of Time had its own carat, but nothing else. And on the Wheel of Time page, The Unfair Sex had no mention.

If the trope is so prevalent (I removed WOT from Uf S) in Wo T that it deserves no explanation, then why does it not occur *at all* on the Wo T page? I do agree that it's prevalent both in a mysognist and mysandrist fashion because the author was such a Southern US Aan that his various fetishes found expression throughout the text. He loved and hated strong women and played with that from word one.

I think The Unfair Sex deserves its own separate sub-page in Wo T like CMOA and the like get their own sub-pages. We're talking about an author who presents in one book a fetish wherein a man with a death wish finds it in him to live by thoroughly dominating his wife, who thinks it's "glorious" (direct quote) and in the same book presents female-on-male rape for comedy, but nevertheless shows that it has a serious and unpleasant effect on the man, but has him mocked by his female compatriots (Crown of Swords).

In short, I think human sexuality and gender roles are presented in a complex fashion in this series (though ultimately from the viewpoint of a very puritanical and repressed American Christian), and that they might deserve discussion in a separate page. Perhaps not just in the context of The Unfair Sex.
Auxdarastrix
Topic
06:36:07 AM Nov 26th 2010
This thing was so Trope Overdosed I could barely navigate the huge list. I created alphabetical folders like what you see in the Negima article to make everything more manageable. I would strongly suggest to people that they use this tool for more Trope Overdosed series.
Icoret
Topic
09:21:39 AM Nov 21st 2010
Can someone tell me if Brandon Sanderson changes the way the woman act when he takes over? Frankly if he keeps them just as arrogant and insufferable as they are now (without any character growth at least) I'm going to stop right now.
Peteman
Topic
04:11:40 AM Nov 5th 2010
edited by Peteman
Moved here:

  • Fridge Brilliance - Everyone complains that every female character is a Jerk Ass. That would probably be because, for thousands of years, women have been the only ones capable of using the magic that runs the world. The world is a matriarchy instead of a patriarchy, like our own. It's subtle (because in every day life, men are still bigger and stronger), but there tends to be Queens instead of Kings, and villages are run by councils of women instead of men. Compare the way the women in the story act towards men with the way men act towards women in other works of fiction and, of course, in real life and it starts to make a bit more sense.
    • Certain places (e.g. Shienar, Two Rivers etc.) practice what we would call chivalry but it's much more focused on stuff like Wouldn't Hit a Girl and Always Save the Girl instead of telling women to Stay in the Kitchen.
    • Villages, or at least Rand's village, are run by a council of women and a council of men, in conjunction. There's the all-male Village Council, headed by the mayor, and the Women's Circle, headed by the Wisdom. The Aiel also do this; you've got your female Wise Ones, and your male Clan Chiefs, and each takes precedence over the other under different circumstances. But both male and female characters admit to themselves that the women tend to be the real power even in those joint-ruling-body cases.
    • This ignores a couple of nations that are patriachies, but generally don't get noticed as much for one reason or another. Mostly because the main characters don't spend as much time in them.

Because some of it makes no sense. Men in most works of fiction don't put down women near to the extent that women do to men in Wheel of Time, and the complaint about chivalry was, in my understanding about reverse chivalry. There are no formal codes about treating men with respect. In fact, there are entire formal codes about treating them like absolute crap.
ActionZero
Topic
03:17:11 PM Nov 2nd 2010
I don't know how to make one and have this page link to it, but after Towers of Midnight I'm convinced that this series needs a page for Heartwarming Moments. Someone want to make one?
Peteman
04:09:06 AM Nov 5th 2010
You can.
Peteman
Topic
06:25:20 PM Sep 25th 2010
I'm pretty sure Forkroot tea is a mild sedative/anesthetic in non-channelers, meaning it can still affect them. A channeler is just far more susceptible.
ryzvonusef
11:01:30 PM Sep 25th 2010
edited by ryzvonusef
IIRC, it was specifically stated in one of the books that non-channelers could drink it in copious amounts without any adverse effect.
Peteman
Topic
06:11:02 PM Sep 25th 2010
edited by Peteman
I'd like to contest that fridge brilliance bit because it really comes across as contradictory, especially in that natter fest (so the women are in charge, have all the power, treat their men like crap, and yet the men, despite being socially, politically and magically inferior, are still bound by chivalry and have to throw their lives away protecting the women, which given the superior positions of the women, shouldn't it be reversed?)
204.212.8.182
Topic
10:24:16 PM May 5th 2010
I've changed Contrived Coincidence to an aversion, because the trope description notes that these events go without lampshading, handwaving, or explanation. So you therefore can't have a justified version. When the power of destiny is explicit to the entire setting's laws of nature (the Pattern) not to mention the concentrated ta'veren form, it doesn't meet that requirement

Also added an often overlooked connection between Aes Sedai and the Fair Folk, as well as removing Wave Motion Gun since nothing suggests shocklances are more then personal weapons (the crazy Da'shain finds one and is waving it around) thus more likely are some type of energy rifle then an nuke-ray.

Other edits too. Working to clean this page up.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Literature.TheWheelOfTime