Why are you adding this here? It should be on the page
Working on cleaning up List of Shows That Need Summary
Not really a ZTD Headscratcher as there is a clear answer: no one. That's the definition of a Bootstrap Paradox; if you don't understand it (and I don't blame you, it's weird) consult that page. The brooch is just one of many instances of that trope.
Mx
There's a lot of very long, very heated, and absolutely sprawling Thread Mode on this page. The monstrously huge paragraphs make the page as a whole hard to read, and mostly consist of people talking past one another. Several of these are also people arguing over opinions ("I thought this was unfair" is NOT a Headscratcher, it's complaining).
I propose moving some of this to the forums, where these kinds of long back-and-forth arguments are appropriate. It's not constructive to have huge sections of page devoted to this. I'm not going to take action without a consensus, though.
Edited by GoblinCipher
Regarding the "How did Eric and Mira..." question/thread, outright deleting a thread is not kosher unless it's against the Headscratchers rule of "no using this for complaining". This seemed like a genuine question that got deleted out of frustration. Headscratchers are bound to get responses that vary in quality, but tropers should still be civil to each other. Lastly, if you delete something, it's added back, then you delete it again, it's an edit war, and you will get suspended. If you add something, it gets deleted, and you add it back, it's an edit war and you will get suspended.
Now, this entry has been variously edited over for a year and a half and the main page is going nowhere. Talk it out here or remove yourself from the conversation.
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@nombretomado Is it an edit war to add something back that was removed for no reason? It seems like that isn't the case but just to be sure I would like to get clarity.
Edited by PandaXclone2
Unless what was deleted is something you wrote, that's the second edit. It's the third edit (add-delete-add; or delete-add-delete) that makes it an edit war.
I know it's taken me a long time to respond to this, but just wanted to say that, incidentally, I wasn't rage-quitting. I just figured that people were completely avoiding the actual issue being raised, to talk about other unrelated aspects related to the narrative of the series. Because the argument basically turned into, "yes, that problem exists, but I'm gonna go on a tangent about why it doesn't matter even if it does". So by that point, the actual problem wasn't even being discussed, it had turned into a generic argument about the narrative structure of the series.
We were hardly ignoring the issue. When it comes right down to it the headscratcher was answered fairly simply; it's just the comment that "it seems unfair to the player if so" is debatable given these several points throughout the headscratcher.
I fail to see how it is unfair to the viewer. If the characters were to just suddenly call Sean by his name with no context or foreshadowing, I would agree that it'd be unfair (not to mention rather poor writing.) As it stands currently though, the game gives you several hints and even tells you outright that Sean is modeled after a boy of the same name well before you actually catch any characters calling him by that name.
Edited by PandaXclone2
I don't want to sound dismissive here, like I'm rage quitting or something, but as of now I genuinely couldn't care less any more, especially since the "debate" has been going on for ages.I still love ZTD, despite the flaws I think it has, so it doesn't really matter. We're all fans of the game, so at the end of the day it doesn't really matter much. I'm just the kind of person that likes to question the flaws in things I like, but this example just got a bit out of hand. I'm gonna just let bygones be bygones on this point. It's not as though I even distinctly dislike the Sean/Q twist. I think it's clever in it's own way, even if I personally think it could've been handled better, from a writing perspective.
That's fair. I believe ZTD is still great despite its sub-par performance within the community as well, and when it comes to headscratchers I try to get logical, rational conclusions out of them, which in that sense I suppose makes us two sides of the same coin. I agree that this did get out of hand, which is probably why it resorted to comparing with other plot points in the Zero Escape franchise to point out that it's really not out of the ordinary. That all being said, I do think the Sean/Q twist could have been handled better, but only in regards to the trailer. Otherwise, given the fragmented narrative structure and how information is given to you in bits, ZTD handles it adequately enough.
Where did the brooch come from, who engraved it?
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