Yes it does. 1st Level Character in 4e are heroes far above the normal tier. Vane did not attack the guards, he merely refused to surrender. Many experienced Dungeon Masters knew this was handled poorly, especially because logically the guards would stop attacking when he was down. The way Spoony played it they knocked him out and then stabbed him to death, rather than capturing him. 4e does not kill of Player characters, and a railroading DM does not make one too dumb to live. This is bad D Ming.
Edited by 76.225.51.10
Joe may or may not have been in the wrong from an out of story perspective, but in story, Vane has no excuse. Perhaps the example should be rewritten to reflect this.
Alternately, you can take it to IJBM; we have much less strict rules about what you can do in that namespace.
The Philosopher-King Paradox
Vane had plenty of excuse, having just defended the king along side elite guards, who failed to stand up for the story, causing a many viewers to wonder if the guards were blind.
And again, you're overlooking the fact that the guards had no reason to kill someone that was knocked unconscious. Vane being attacked was not the bad thing, the bad thing was Spoony's handling of the system (and the other guards failing to point out what happened.)
Examples of Spoony's inexperience with system: Not knowing the heal rules, not knowing slowed reduces your speed to 2, not by half, not rolling attacks individuals and instead going for a mass rolls which resulted in player death where none should have logically happened. (I ran into this exact same problem my first time D Ming, however, I was smart enough to realize the player would have survived if I hadn't rolled all attacks before damage)
Edited by 76.225.51.10
The guards actions made sense. They did not see the fight. The guards who killed Vane arrived after the fight. All they knew was that that something had happened to the king involving a dragon, and this guy refuses to put down his lightening shooting staff. They did what any good guard would do. As for whether they used excessive force, well, they likely did. But then again, police use excessive force all the time, even in the real world where you get in trouble for doing it. Joe likely didn't realize that this was the kind of game Spoony was D Ming, but Vane had no excuse. The example should be rewritten to reflect this.
Edited by Taelor The Philosopher-King Paradox
As for the other guards failing to point out what happened, remember, this took place in a matter of seconds. The Fog of Battle has claimed many lives.
The Philosopher-King Paradox
Wrong. Spoony did not use the system in the correct way. There were several guards that fought the monsters with Vane that were already there and they failed to explain the situation. This is pointed out to Spoony but he brushes it off. It's not a matter of excessive force, it's a matter of. "This man is obviously unconscious, let's kill him".
Compromise, change example to Your Mileage May Vary: Killer DM or Too Dumb to Live
or
- Your Mileage May Vary, Killer DM - See Spoony above.
Restoring Too Dumb to Live Example.
Vane took on a group of people much more powerful then himself, even after all the other party members had surrendered. Reality Ensues. The thing to remember is that Spoony values plot above everything else (occasionally to the extent of "Stop Having Fun" Guys); from a storytelling perspective, it wouldn't make sense for someone to survive that.
Also: Mr. 76.225.51.10, this page is here for a reason; if you feel that an example does not fit, lodge your complaint here and we will try to get things figured out. Please do not contribute to Conversation In The Main Page; additionally, the history page edit reasons, while useful, are not the place to hold a debate.
Edited by Taelor The Philosopher-King Paradox Hide / Show Replies