Discussion History Characters / TheSilmarillion

But in my opinion, accusations this heavy should be thrown around only with the best of evidence. Aredhel marrying Eöl \\\"not wholy unwillingly\\\" most certainly doesn\\\'t qualify, nor does Huan guarding Lúthien\\\'s door. I\\\'ve always just thought Celegorm ordered Huan to guard the door to prevent any escape attempts by Lúthien.

Also, I think when one looks at the whole picture it\\\'s quite clear what kind of moral code Tolkien had, and what he wanted to express with his characters. Tolkien loved mythology, but he was displeaced by the moral code - including the sexual moral code - impilicated in pre-Christian mythos. He went through the effort of writing an essay about how Elves never commit adultery nor rape (yes ArcadesSabboth, I indeed remember that exact mention, though I don\\\'t own the book so I can\\\'t check it - perhaps somebody can help?), and he never wrote anything that would contradict it either. The whole Finwë-Míriel-Indis tragedy is a huge discussion about the morality of second marriages, something that must have ment a lot for a devout Roman-Catholic like Tolkien.

I\\\'m not saying that every Tolkien fan should share his moral opinions - I would green light Finwë and Indis in a heart beat - but that respecting his will when it comes to his characters is the least we can do for a man who gave us this whole mythology. I just feel it\\\'s disrespectful towards Tolkien to make his characters rapists, that\\\'s all.

Of course I understand that 90 % or so of the fanfiction is romantic/erotic and that people write fics as they please, but I\\\'m not fighting a war against fanfiction, just guarding (my understanding of) the canonical characterization from being too much influenced by fanon.

Oh, and I\\\'m not shouting this, I\\\'m perfectly calm and in quite a good mood actually - it\\\'s great to discuss Tolkien with such depth. Just saying, so that nobody feels attacked. :)





(Or perhaps I\\\'m just traumatized by Narnia \\\"fans\\\" who make all the Pevensie children have homosexual underage incestuous sex, or have children born out of incestuos relationships. When a few were reminded that Lewis would have a stroke if he ever read it, they just laughed at him and said they don\\\'t need to care about opinions of closed minded old bores - even though that same closed minded old bore created the characters and the verse for them in the first place. Urgh. I could tell other stories, too. Even of fans claiming that their version of the characters is actually TRUER than the original canonical characterization, as in, their fanfiction should be regarded as the REAL characterization. >.<)

But in my opinion, accusations this heavy should be thrown around only with the best of evidence. Aredhel marrying Eöl \\\"not wholy unwillingly\\\" most certainly doesn\\\'t qualify, nor does Huan guarding Lúthien\\\'s door. I\\\'ve always just thought Celegorm ordered Huan to guard the door to prevent any escape attempts by Lúthien.

Also, I think when one looks at the whole picture it\\\'s quite clear what kind of moral code Tolkien had, and what he wanted to express with his characters. Tolkien loved mythology, but he was displeaced by the moral code - including the sexual moral code - impilicated in pre-Christian mythos. He went through the effort of writing an essay about how Elves never commit adultery nor rape (yes ArcadesSabboth, I indeed remember that exact mention, though I don\\\'t own the book so I can\\\'t check it - perhaps somebody can help?), and he never wrote anything that would contradict it either. The whole Finwë-Míriel-Indis tragedy is a huge discussion about the morality of second marriages, something that must have ment a lot for a devout Roman-Catholic like Tolkien.

I\\\'m not saying that every Tolkien fan should share his moral opinions - I would green light Finwë and Indis in a heart beat - but that respecting his will when it comes to his characters is the least we can do for a man who gave us this whole mythology. I just feel it\\\'s disrespectful towards Tolkien to make his characters rapists, that\\\'s all.

Of course I understand that 90 % or so of the fanfiction is romantic/erotic and that people write fics as they please, but I\\\'m not fighting a war against fanfiction, just guarding (my understanding of) the canonical characterization from being too much influenced by fanon.

Oh, and I\\\'m not shouting this, I\\\'m perfectly calm and in quite a good mood actually - it\\\'s great to discuss Tolkien with such depth. Just saying, so that nobody feels attacked. :)





(Or perhaps I\\\'m just traumatized by Narnia \\\"fans\\\" who make all the Pevensie children have homosexual underage incestuous sex, or have children born out of incestuos relationships. When a few were reminded that Lewis would have a stroke if he ever read it, they just laughed at him and said they don\\\'t need to care about opinions of closed minded old bores - even though that same closed minded old bore created the characters and the verse for them in the first place. Urgh. I could tell other stories, too. Even of fans claiming that their version of the characters is actually TRUER than the original canonical characterization, as in, their fanfiction should be taken as more canonical than the canon. >.<)

But in my opinion, accusations this heavy should be thrown around only with the best of evidence. Aredhel marrying Eöl \\\"not wholy unwillingly\\\" most certainly doesn\\\'t qualify, nor does Huan guarding Lúthien\\\'s door. I\\\'ve always just thought Celegorm ordered Huan to guard the door to prevent any escape attempts by Lúthien.

Also, I think when one looks at the whole picture it\\\'s quite clear what kind of moral code Tolkien had, and what he wanted to express with his characters. Tolkien loved mythology, but he was displeaced by the moral code - including the sexual moral code - impilicated in pre-Christian mythos. He went through the effort of writing an essay about how Elves never commit adultery nor rape (yes ArcadesSabboth, I indeed remember that exact mention, though I don\\\'t own the book so I can\\\'t check it - perhaps somebody can help?), and he never wrote anything that would contradict it either. The whole Finwë-Míriel-Indis tragedy is a huge discussion about the morality of second marriages, something that must have ment a lot for a devout Roman-Catholic like Tolkien.

I\\\'m not saying that every Tolkien fan should share his moral opinions - I would green light Finwë and Indis in a heart beat - but that respecting his will when it comes to his characters is the least we can do for a man who gave us this whole mythology. I just feel it\\\'s disrespectful towards Tolkien to make his characters rapists, that\\\'s all.

Of course I understand that 90 % or so of the fanfiction is romantic/erotic and that people write fics as they please, but I\\\'m not fighting a war against fanfiction, just guarding (my understanding of) the canonical characterization from being too much influenced by fanon.

Oh, and I\\\'m not shouting this, I\\\'m perfectly calm and in quite a good mood actually - it\\\'s great to discuss Tolkien with such depth. Just saying, so that nobody feels attacked. :)





(Or perhaps I\\\'m just traumatized by Narnia \\\"fans\\\" who make all the Pevensie children have homosexual underage incestuous sex that produces children born out of sibling incest. When a few were reminded that Lewis would have a stroke if he ever read it, they just laughed at him and said they don\\\'t need to care about opinions of closed minded old bores - even though that same closed minded old bore created the characters and the verse for them in the first place. Urgh. I could tell other stories, too. Even of fans claiming that their version of the characters is actually TRUER than the original canonical characterization, as in, their fanfiction should be taken as more canonical than the canon. >.<)

But in my opinion, accusations this heavy should be thrown around only with the best of evidence. Aredhel marrying Eöl \\\"not wholy unwillingly\\\" most certainly doesn\\\'t qualify, nor does Huan guarding Lúthien\\\'s door. I\\\'ve always just thought Celegorm ordered Huan to guard the door to prevent any escape attempts by Lúthien.

Also, I think when one looks at the whole picture it\\\'s quite clear what kind of moral code Tolkien had, and what he wanted to express with his characters. Tolkien loved mythology, but he was displeaced by the moral code - including the sexual moral code - impilicated in pre-Christian mythos. He went through the effort of writing an essay about how Elves never commit adultery nor rape (yes ArcadesSabboth, I indeed remember that exact mention, though I don\\\'t own the book so I can\\\'t check it - perhaos somebody can help?), and he never wrote anything that would contradict it either. The whole Finwë-Míriel-Indis tragedy is a huge discussion about the morality of second marriages, something that must have ment a lot for a devout Roman-Catholic like Tolkien.

I\\\'m not saying that every Tolkien fan should share his moral opinions - I would green light Finwë and Indis in a heart beat - but respecting his will at least when talking about his own characters would be the least we can do for a man who gave us this whole mythology. I just feel it\\\'s disrespectful towards Tolkien to make his characters rapists, that\\\'s all.

Of course I understand that 90 % or so of the fanfiction is romantic/erotic and that people write fics as they please, but I\\\'m not fighting a war against fanfiction, just guarding (my understanding of) the canonical characterization from being too much influenced by fanon.

Oh, and I\\\'m not shouting this, I\\\'m perfectly calm and in quite a good mood actually - it\\\'s great to discuss Tolkien with such depth. Just saying, so that nobody feels attacked. :)





(Or perhaps I\\\'m just traumatized by Narnia \\\"fans\\\" who make all the Pevensie children have homosexual underage incestuous sex that produces children born out of sibling incest. When a few were reminded that Lewis would have a stroke if he ever read it, they just laughed at him and said they don\\\'t need to care about opinions of closed minded old bores - even though that same closed minded old bore created the characters and the verse for them in the first place. Urgh. I could tell other stories, too. Even of fans claiming that their version of the characters is actually MORE real than the original canonical characterization. And yes, rape was included in that case too. >.<)

But in my opinion, accusations this heavy should be thrown around only with the best of evidence. Aredhel marrying Eöl \\\"not wholy unwillingly\\\" most certainly doesn\\\'t qualify, nor does Huan guarding Lúthien\\\'s door. I\\\'ve always just thought Celegorm ordered Huan to guard the door to prevent any escape attempts by Lúthien.

Also, I think when one looks at the whole picture it\\\'s quite clear what kind of moral code Tolkien had, and what he wanted to express with his characters. Tolkien loved mythology, but he was displeaced by the moral code - including the sexual moral code - impilicated in pre-Christian mythos. He went through the effort of writing an essay about how Elves never commit adultery nor rape (yes ArcadesSabboth, I indeed remember that exact mention, though I don\\\'t own the book so I can\\\'t check it - perhaos somebody can help?), and he never wrote anything that would contradict it either. The whole Finwë-Míriel-Indis tragedy is a huge discussion about the morality of second marriages, something that must have ment a lot for a devout Roman-Catholic like Tolkien.

I\\\'m not saying that every Tolkien fan should share his moral opinions - I would green light Finwë and Indis in a heart beat - but respecting his will at least when talking about his own characters would be the least we can do for a man who gave us this whole mythology. I just feel it\\\'s disrespectful towards Tolkien to make his characters rapists, that\\\'s all. Of course I understand that 90 % or so of the fanfiction is romantic/erotic, but I\\\'m not fighting a war against fanfiction, just guarding the canonical characterization from being too much influenced by fanon.

Oh, and I\\\'m not shouting this, I\\\'m perfectly calm and in quite a good mood actually - it\\\'s great to discuss Tolkien with such depth. Just saying, so that nobody feels attacked. :)





(Or perhaps I\\\'m just traumatized by Narnia \\\"fans\\\" who make all the Pevensie children have homosexual underage incestuous sex that produces children born out of sibling incest. When a few were reminded that Lewis would have a stroke if he ever read it, they just laughed at him and said they don\\\'t need to care about opinions of closed minded old bores - even though that same closed minded old bore created the characters and the verse for them in the first place. Urgh. I could tell other stories, too. Even of fans claiming that their version of the characters is actually MORE real than the original canonical characterization. And yes, rape was included in that case too. >.<)

But in my opinion, accusations this heavy should be thrown around only with the best of evidence. Aredhel marrying Eöl \\\"not wholy unwillingly\\\" most certainly doesn\\\'t qualify, nor does Huan guarding Lúthien\\\'s door. I\\\'ve always just thought Celegorm ordered Huan to guard the door to prevent any escape attempts by Lúthien.

Also, I think when one looks at the whole picture it\\\'s quite clear what kind of moral code Tolkien had, and what he wanted to express with his characters. Tolkien loved mythology, but he was displeaced by the moral code - including the sexual moral code - impilicated in pre-Christian mythos. He went through the effort of writing an essay about how Elves never commit adultery nor rape (yes ArcadesSabboth, I indeed remember that exact mention, though I don\\\'t own the book so I can\\\'t check it - perhaos somebody can help?), and he never wrote anything that would contradict it either. The whole Finwë-Míriel-Indis tragedy is a huge discussion about the morality of second marriages, something that must have ment a lot for a devout Roman-Catholic like Tolkien.

I\\\'m not saying that every Tolkien fan should share his moral opinions - I would green light Finwë and Indis in a heart beat - but respecting his will at least when talking about his own characters would be the least we can do for a man who gave us this whole mythology. I just feel it\\\'s disrespectful towards Tolkien to make his characters rapists, that\\\'s all. Of course I understand that 90 % or so of the fanfiction is erotic, but I\\\'m not fighting a war against fanfiction, just guarding the canonical characterization from being too much influenced by fanon.

Oh, and I\\\'m not shouting this, I\\\'m perfectly calm and in quite a good mood actually - it\\\'s great to discuss Tolkien with such depth. Just saying, so that nobody feels attacked. :)





(Or perhaps I\\\'m just traumatized by Narnia \\\"fans\\\" who make all the Pevensie children have homosexual underage incestuous sex that produces children born out of sibling incest. When a few were reminded that Lewis would have a stroke if he ever read it, they just laughed at him and said they don\\\'t need to care about opinions of closed minded old bores - even though that same closed minded old bore created the characters and the verse for them in the first place. Urgh. I could tell other stories, too. Even of fans claiming that their version of the characters is actually MORE real than the original canonical characterization. And yes, rape was included in that case too. >.<)

But in my opinion, accusations this heavy should be thrown around only with the best of evidence. Aredhel marrying Eöl \\\"not wholy unwillingly\\\" most certainly doesn\\\'t qualify, nor does Huan guarding Lúthien\\\'s door. I\\\'ve always just thought Celegorm ordered Huan to guard the door to prevent any escape attempts by Lúthien.

Also, I think when one looks at the whole picture it\\\'s quite clear what kind of moral code Tolkien had, and what he wanted to express with his characters. Tolkien loved mythology, but he was displeaced by the moral code - including the sexual moral code - impilicated in pre-Christian mythos. He went through the effort of writing an essay about how Elves never commit adultery nor rape (yes ArcadesSabboth, I indeed remember that exact mention, though I don\\\'t own the book so I can\\\'t check it - perhaos somebody can help?), and he never wrote anything that would contradict it either. The whole Finwë-Míriel-Indis tragedy is a huge discussion about the morality of second marriages, something that must have ment a lot for a devout Roman-Catholic like Tolkien.

I\\\'m not saying that every Tolkien fan should share his moral opinions - I would green light Finwë and Indis in a heart beat - but respecting his will at least when talking about his own characters would be the least we can do for a man who gave us this whole mythology. I just feel it\\\'s disrespectful towards Tolkien to make his characters rapists, that\\\'s all. Of course I understand that 99 % or so of the fanfiction is erotic, but I\\\'m not fighting a war against fanfiction, just guarding the canonical characterization from being too much influenced by fanon.

Oh, and I\\\'m not shouting this, I\\\'m perfectly calm and in quite a good mood actually - it\\\'s great to discuss Tolkien with such depth. Just saying, so that nobody feels attacked. :)





(Or perhaps I\\\'m just traumatized by Narnia \\\"fans\\\" who make all the Pevensie children have homosexual underage incestuous sex that produces children born out of sibling incest. When a few were reminded that Lewis would have a stroke if he ever read it, they just laughed at him and said they don\\\'t need to care about opinions of closed minded old bores - even though that same closed minded old bore created the characters and the verse for them in the first place. Urgh. I could tell other stories, too. Even of fans claiming that their version of the characters is actually MORE real than the original canonical characterization. And yes, rape was included in that case too. >.<)

But in my opinion, accusations this heavy should be thrown around only with the best of evidence. Aredhel marrying Eöl \\\"not wholy unwillingly\\\" most certainly doesn\\\'t qualify, nor does Huan guarding Lúthien\\\'s door. I\\\'ve always just thought Celegorm ordered Huan to guard the door to prevent any escape attempts by Lúthien.

Also, I think when one looks at the whole picture it\\\'s quite clear what kind of moral code Tolkien had, and what he wanted to express with his characters. Tolkien loved mythology, but he was displeaced by the moral code - including the sexual moral code - impilicated in pre-Christian mythos. He went through the effort of writing an essay about how Elves never commit adultery nor rape (yes ArcadesSabboth, I indeed remember that exact mention, though I don\\\'t own the book so I can\\\'t check it - perhaos somebody can help?), and he never wrote anything that would contradict it either. The whole Finwë-Míriel-Indis tragedy is a huge discussion about the morality of second marriages, something that must have ment a lot for a devout Roman-Catholic like Tolkien.

I\\\'m not saying that every Tolkien fan should share his moral opinions - I would green light Finwë and Indis in a heart beat - but respecting his will at least when talking about his own characters would be the least we can do for a man who gave us this whole mythology. I just feel it\\\'s disrespectful towards Tolkien to make his characters rapists, that\\\'s all. In canon, that is. Fanfiction is for our fun and games.

Oh, and I\\\'m not shouting this, I\\\'m perfectly calm and in quite a good mood actually - it\\\'s great to discuss Tolkien with such depth. Just saying, so that nobody feels attacked. :)





(Or perhaps I\\\'m just traumatized by Narnia \\\"fans\\\" who make all the Pevensie children have homosexual underage incestuous sex that produces children born out of sibling incest. When a few were reminded that Lewis would have a stroke if he ever read it, they just laughed at him and said they don\\\'t need to care about opinions of closed minded old bores - even though that same closed minded old bore created the characters and the verse for them in the first place. Urgh. I could tell other stories, too. Even of fans claiming that their version of the characters is actually MORE real than the original canonical characterization. And yes, rape was included in that case too. >.<)

But in my opinion, accusations this heavy should be thrown around only with the best of evidence. Aredhel marrying Eöl \\\"not wholy unwillingly\\\" most certainly doesn\\\'t qualify, nor does Huan guarding Lúthien\\\'s door. I\\\'ve always just thought Celegorm ordered Huan to guard the door to prevent any escape attempts by Lúthien.

Also, I think when one looks at the whole picture it\\\'s quite clear what kind of moral code Tolkien had, and what he wanted to express with his characters. Tolkien loved mythology, but he was displeaced by the moral code - including the sexual moral code - impilicated in pre-Christian mythos. He went through the effort of writing an essay about how Elves never commit adultery nor rape (yes ArcadesSabboth, I indeed remember that exact mention, though I don\\\'t own the book so I can\\\'t check it - perhaos somebody can help?), and he never wrote anything that would contradict it either. The whole Finwë-Míriel-Indis tragedy is a huge discussion about the morality of second marriages, something that must have ment a lot for a devout Roman-Catholic like Tolkien.

I\\\'m not saying that every Tolkien fan should share his moral opinions - I would green light Finwë and Indis in a heart beat - but respecting his will at least when talking about his own characters would be the least we can do for a man who gave us this whole mythology. I just feel it\\\'s disrespectful towards Tolkien to make his characters rapists, that\\\'s all. In canon, that is. Fanfiction is for our fun and games.

Oh, and I\\\'m not shouting this, I\\\'m perfectly calm and in quite a good mood actually - it\\\'s great to discuss Tolkien with such depth. Just saying, so that nobody feels attacked. :)





(Or perhaps I\\\'m just traumatized by Narnia \\\"fans\\\" who make all the Pevensie children have homosexual underage incestuous sex that produces children born out of sibling incest. When they were reminded that Lewis would have a stroke if he ever read it, they just laughed at him and said they don\\\'t need to care about opinions of closed minded old bores - even though that same closed minded old bore wrote the characters and the verse in the first place. Urgh. I could tell other stories, too. Even of fans claiming that their version of the characters is actually MORE real than the original canonical characterization. And yes, rape was included in that case too. >.<)

But in my opinion, accusations this heavy should be thrown around only with the best of evidence. Aredhel marrying Eöl \\\"not wholy unwillingly\\\" most certainly doesn\\\'t qualify, nor does Huan guarding Lúthien\\\'s door. I\\\'ve always just thought Celegorm ordered Huan to guard the door to prevent any escape attempts by Lúthien.

Also, I think when one looks at the whole picture it\\\'s quite clear what kind of moral code Tolkien had, and what he wanted to express with his characters. Tolkien loved mythology, but he was displeaced by the moral code - including the sexual moral code - impilicated in pre-Christian mythos. He went through the effort of writing an essay about how Elves never commit adultery nor rape (yes ArcadesSabboth, I indeed remember that exact mention, though I don\\\'t own the book so I can\\\'t check it - perhaos somebody can help?), and he never wrote anything that would contradict it either. The whole Finwë-Míriel-Indis tragedy is a huge discussion about the morality of second marriages, something that must have ment a lot for a devout Roman-Catholic like Tolkien.

I\\\'m not saying that every Tolkien fan should share his moral opinions - I would green light Finwë and Indis in a heart beat - but respecting his will at least when talking about his own characters would be the least we can do for a man who gave us this whole mythology. I just feel it\\\'s disrespectful towards Tolkien to make his characters rapists, that\\\'s all. In canon, that is. Fanfiction is for our fun and games.

Oh, and I\\\'m not shouting this, I\\\'m perfectly calm and in quite a good mood actually - it\\\'s great to discuss Tolkien with such depth. Just saying, so that nobody feels attacked. :)





(Or perhaps I\\\'m just traumatized by Narnia \\\"fans\\\" who make all the Pevensie children have homosexual underage incestuous sex. When they were reminded that Lewis would have a stroke if he ever read it, they just laughed at him and said they don\\\'t need to care about opinions of closed minded old bores - even though that same closed minded old bore wrote the characters and the verse in the first place. Urgh. I could tell other stories, too. Even of fans claiming that their version of the characters is actually MORE real than the original canonical characterization. And yes, rape was included in that case too. >.<)

But in my opinion, accusations this heavy should be thrown around only with the best of evidence. Aredhel marrying Eöl \\\"not wholy unwillingly\\\" most certainly doesn\\\'t qualify, nor does Huan guarding Lúthien\\\'s door. I\\\'ve always just thought Celegorm ordered Huan to guard the door to prevent any escape attempts by Lúthien.

Also, I think when one looks at the whole picture it\\\'s quite clear what kind of moral code Tolkien had, and what he wanted to express with his characters. Tolkien loved mythology, but he was displeaced by the moral code - including the sexual moral code - impilicated in pre-Christian mythos. He went through the effort of writing an essay about how Elves never commit adultery nor rape (yes ArcadesSabboth, I indeed remember that exact mention, though I don\\\'t own the book so I can\\\'t check it - perhaos somebody can help?), and he never wrote anything that would contradict it either. The whole Finwë-Míriel-Indis tragedy is a huge discussion about the morality of second marriages, something that must have ment a lot for a devout Roman-Catholic like Tolkien.

I\\\'m not saying that every Tolkien fan should share his moral opinions - I would green light Finwë and Indis in a heart beat - but respecting his will at least when talking about his own characters would be the least we can do for a man who gave us this whole mythology. I just feel it\\\'s disrespectful towards Tolkien to make his characters rapists, that\\\'s all. In canon, that is. Fanfiction is for our fun and games.

Oh, and I\\\'m not shouting this, I\\\'m perfectly calm and in quite a good mood actually - it\\\'s great to discuss Tolkien with such depth. Just saying, so that nobody feels attacked. :)

But in my opinion, accusations this heavy should be thrown around only with the best of evidence. Aredhel marrying Eöl \\\"not wholy unwillingly\\\" most certainly doesn\\\'t qualify, nor does Huan guarding Lúthien\\\'s door. I\\\'ve always just thought Celegorm ordered Huan to guard the door to prevent any escape attempts by Lúthien.

Also, I think when one looks at the whole picture it\\\'s quite clear what kind of moral code Tolkien had, and what he wanted to express with his characters. Tolkien loved mythology, but he was displeaced by the moral code - including the sexual moral code - impilicated in pre-Christian mythos. He went through the effort of writing an essay about how Elves never commit adultery nor rape (yes ArcadesSabboth, I indeed remember that exact mention, though I don\\\'t own the book so I can\\\'t check it - perhaos somebody can help?), and he never wrote anything that would contradict his previous writings. The whole Finwë-Míriel-Indis tragedy is a huge discussion about the morality of second marriages, something that must have ment a lot for a devout Roman-Catholic like Tolkien.

I\\\'m not saying that every Tolkien fan should share his moral opinions - I would green light Finwë and Indis in a heart beat - but respecting his will at least when talking about his own characters would be the least we can do for a man who gave us this whole mythology. I just feel it\\\'s disrespectful towards Tolkien to make his characters rapists, that\\\'s all. In canon, that is. Fanfiction is for our fun and games.

Oh, and I\\\'m not shouting this, I\\\'m perfectly calm and in quite a good mood actually - it\\\'s great to discuss Tolkien with such depth. Just saying, so that nobody feels attacked. :)