Discussion History ComicBook / BirdsOfPrey

I just re-read issue 73 of Birds of Prey volume 1 in relation to the second example for \\\"If You Kill Him, You Will Be Just Like Him\\\" after my edit was changed back to what it was, with the following explanation:

\\\"No, he was on the ground and defeated. That was the issue: Whether killing a defeated opponent is okay.\\\"

In the issue, Brusaw has used his mind control powers to convince every member of the cult to commit suicide by hand grenade, which they will do very soon. This is the only reason Huntress considers killing him (she even says \\\"you could have *lived*, dammit\\\" in the previous issue). The resulting explosions would probably kill Huntress and might kill Vixen, but they definitely will kill all the kids, teenagers and adults who were under Brusaw\\\'s control. This is to say nothing of the threat posed by the five meta humans who may or may not resume their attack at any moment (Huntress later says that Brusaw got them to stand down, which appears to happen off screen), mainly because Huntress and Vixen could probably beat them a second time.

He might have been laying on the ground, with three bolts in his chest and Huntress stepping on his neck, but his mind control powers still made him an immediate threat to everyone at the site. As an immediate threat, he can in no way be considered \\\"defeated\\\". If he was a threat at all before Huntress shot him the first time, then he was still a threat after she shot him, because his capacity to kill was not affected.

This scene wasn\\\'t about whether killing a defeated opponent is okay (because he wasn\\\'t defeated), it was about what it takes to get Huntress to cross the line (as it turns out, it\\\'s to prevent the mass murder of hundreds of people). This is why the example should acknowledge that he was still a threat.

He wasn\\\'t actually defeated until after Huntress tried to fire her crossbow. She convinced Brusaw to give up by reminding him of all the other cult mass suicides (knowing both the names and former locations of several) and how they didn\\\'t achieve anything. It wasn\\\'t as though the police were just waiting in the wings to arrest the guy and throw him in prison, prevented only by the Huntress ruthlessly deciding he needed to be executed for his crimes.

These distinctions are important because they each present a very different picture of the situation, especially in terms of Helena\\\'s characterization. What\\\'s the point of including examples if they don\\\'t actually describe the situation?

I\\\'m pretty sure this is the right place for this kind of discussion, but if not than I\\\'ll gladly take it to where it\\\'s more appropriate.

I just re-read issue 73 of Birds of Prey volume 1 in relation to the second example for \\\"If You Kill Him, You Will Be Just Like Him\\\" after my edit was changed back to what it was, with the following explanation:

\\\"No, he was on the ground and defeated. That was the issue: Whether killing a defeated opponent is okay.\\\"

In the issue, Brusaw has used his mind control powers to convince every member of the cult to commit suicide by hand grenade, which they will do very soon. This is the only reason Huntress considers killing him (she even says \\\"you could have *lived*, dammit\\\" in the previous issue). The resulting explosions would probably kill Huntress and might kill Vixen, but they definitely will kill the all the kids, teenagers and adults who were under Brusaw\\\'s control. This is to say nothing of the threat posed by the five meta humans who may or may not resume their attack at any moment (Huntress later says that Brusaw got them to stand down, which appears to happen off screen).

He might have been laying on the ground, with three bolts in his chest and Huntress stepping on his neck, but his mind control powers still made him an immediate threat to everyone at the site. As an immediate threat, he can in no way be considered \\\"defeated\\\". If he was a threat at all before Huntress shot him the first time, then he was still a threat after she shot him, because his capacity to kill was not affected.

This scene wasn\\\'t about whether killing a defeated opponent is okay (because he wasn\\\'t defeated), it was about what it takes to get Huntress to cross the line (as it turns out, it\\\'s to prevent the mass murder of hundreds of people). This is why the example should acknowledge that he was still a threat.

He wasn\\\'t actually defeated until after Huntress tried to fire her crossbow. She convinced Brusaw to give up by reminding him of all the other cult mass suicides (knowing both the names and former locations of several) and how they didn\\\'t achieve anything. It wasn\\\'t as though the police were just waiting in the wings to arrest the guy and throw him in prison, prevented only by the Huntress ruthlessly deciding he needed to be executed for his crimes.

These distinctions are important because they each present a very different picture of the situation, especially in terms of Helena\\\'s characterization. What\\\'s the point of including examples if they don\\\'t actually describe the situation?

I\\\'m pretty sure this is the right place for this kind of discussion, but if not than I\\\'ll gladly take it to where it\\\'s more appropriate.

I just re-read issue 73 of Birds of Prey volume 1 in relation to the second example for \\\"If You Kill Him, You Will Be Just Like Him\\\" after my edit was changed back to what it was, with the following explanation:

\\\"No, he was on the ground and defeated. That was the issue: Whether killing a defeated opponent is okay.\\\"

In the issue, Brusaw has used his mind control powers to convince every member of the cult to commit suicide by hand grenade, which they will do very soon. This is the only reason Huntress considers killing him (she even says \\\"you could have *lived*, dammit\\\" in the previous issue). The resulting explosions would probably kill Huntress and might kill Vixen, but they definitely will kill the all the kids, teenagers and adults who were under Brusaw\\\'s control. This is to say nothing of the threat posed by the five meta humans who may or may not resume their attack at any moment (Huntress later says that Brusaw got them to stand down, which appears to happen off screen).

He might have been laying on the ground, with three bolts in his chest and Huntress stepping on his neck, but his mind control powers still made him an immediate threat to everyone at the site. As an immediate threat, he can in no way be considered \\\"defeated\\\". If he was a threat at all before Huntress shot him the first time, then he was still a threat after she shot him, because his capacity to kill was not affected.

This scene wasn\\\'t about whether killing a defeated opponent is okay (because he wasn\\\'t defeated), it was about what it takes to get Huntress to cross the line (as it turns out, it\\\'s to prevent the mass murder of hundreds of people). This is why the example should acknowledge that he was still a threat.

He wasn\\\'t actually defeated until after Huntress tried to fire her crossbow. She convinced Brusaw to give up by reminding him of all the other cult mass suicides (knowing both the names and former locations of several) and how they didn\\\'t achieve anything. It wasn\\\'t as though the police were just waiting in the wings to arrest the guy and throw him in prison, prevented only by the Huntress ruthlessly deciding he needed to be executed for his crimes.

These distinctions are important because it prevents a very different picture of the situation, especially in terms of Helena\\\'s characterization. What\\\'s the point of including examples if they give the wrong idea?

I\\\'m pretty sure this is the right place for this kind of discussion, but if not than I\\\'ll gladly take it to where it\\\'s more appropriate.

I just re-read issue 73 of Birds of Prey volume 1 in relation to the second example for \\\"If You Kill Him, You Will Be Just Like Him\\\" after my edit was changed back to what it was, with the following explanation:

\\\"No, he was on the ground and defeated. That was the issue: Whether killing a defeated opponent is okay.\\\"

In the issue, Brusaw has used his mind control powers to convince every member of the cult to commit suicide by hand grenade, which they will do very soon. This is the only reason Huntress considers killing him (she even says \\\"you could have *lived*, dammit\\\" in the previous issue). The resulting explosions would probably kill Huntress and might kill Vixen, but they definitely will kill the all the kids, teenagers and adults who were under Brusaw\\\'s control. This is to say nothing of the threat posed by the five meta humans who may or may not resume their attack at any moment (Huntress later says that Brusaw got them to stand down, which appears to happen off screen).

He might have been laying on the ground, with three bolts in his chest and Huntress stepping on his neck, but his mind control powers still made him an immediate threat to everyone at the site. As an immediate threat, he can in no way be considered \\\"defeated\\\". If he was a threat at all before Huntress shot him the first time, then he was still a threat after she shot him, because his capacity to kill was not affected.

This scene wasn\\\'t about whether killing a defeated opponent is okay (because he wasn\\\'t defeated), it was about what it takes to get Huntress to cross the line (as it turns out, it\\\'s to prevent the mass murder of hundreds of people). This is why the example should acknowledge that he was still a threat.

I\\\'m pretty sure this is the right place for this kind of discussion, but if not than I\\\'ll gladly take it to where it\\\'s more appropriate.

I just re-read issue 73 of Birds of Prey volume 1 in relation to the second example for \\\"If You Kill Him, You Will Be Just Like Him\\\" after my edit was changed back to what it was, with the following explanation:

\\\"No, he was on the ground and defeated. That was the issue: Whether killing a defeated opponent is okay.\\\"

In the issue, Brusaw has used his mind control powers to convince every member of the cult to commit suicide by hand grenade, which they will do very soon. This is the only reason Huntress considers killing him (she even says \\\"you could have *lived*, dammit\\\" in the previous issue). The resulting explosions would probably kill Huntress and might kill Vixen, but they definitely will kill the all the kids, teenagers and adults who were under Brusaw\\\'s control. This is to say nothing of the threat posed by the five meta humans who may or may not resume their attack at any moment (Huntress later says that Brusaw got them to stand down, which appears to happen off screen).

He might have been laying on the ground, with three bolts in his chest and Huntress stepping on his neck, but his mind control powers still made him an immediate threat to everyone at the site. As an immediate threat, he can in no way be considered \\\"defeated\\\". If he was a threat at all before Huntress shot him the first time, then he was still a threat after she shot him, because his capacity to kill was not affected.

This scene wasn\\\'t about whether killing a defeated opponent is okay (because he wasn\\\'t defeated), it was about what it takes to get Huntress to cross the line (as it turns out, it\\\'s to prevent the mass murder of hundreds of people).

I\\\'m pretty sure this is the right place for this kind of discussion, but if not than I\\\'ll gladly take it to where it\\\'s more appropriate.

I just re-read issue 73 of Birds of Prey volume 1 in relation to the second example for \\\"If You Kill Him, You Will Be Just Like Him\\\" after my edit was changed back to what it was, with the following explanation:

\\\"No, he was on the ground and defeated. That was the issue: Whether killing a defeated opponent is okay.\\\"

In the issue, Brusaw has used his mind control powers to convince every member of the cult to commit suicide by hand grenade, which they will do very soon. This is the only reason Huntress considers killing him (she even says \\\"you could have *lived*, dammit\\\" in the previous issue). The resulting explosions would probably kill Huntress and might kill Vixen, but they definitely will kill the all the kids, teenagers and adults who were under Brusaw\\\'s control. This is to say nothing of the threat posed by the five meta humans who may or may not resume their attack at any moment (Huntress later says that Brusaw got them to stand down, which appears to happen off screen).

He might have been laying on the ground, with three bolts in his chest and Huntress stepping on his neck, but his mind control powers still made him an immediate threat to everyone at the site. As an immediate threat, he can in no way be considered \\\"defeated\\\". If he was a threat at all before Huntress shot him the first time, then he was still a threat after she shot him, because his capacity to kill was not affected.

This scene wasn\\\'t about whether killing a defeated opponent is okay (because he wasn\\\'t defeated), it was about what it takes to get Huntress to cross the line (as it turns out, it\\\'s the mass murder of hundreds of people).

I\\\'m pretty sure this is the right place for this kind of discussion, but if not than I\\\'ll gladly take it to where it\\\'s more appropriate.

I just re-read issue 73 vol.1 of Birds of Pray in relation to the second example for \\\"If You Kill Him, You Will Be Just Like Him\\\" after my edit was changed back to what it was, with the following explanation:

\\\"No, he was on the ground and defeated. That was the issue: Whether killing a defeated opponent is okay.\\\"

In the issue, Brusaw has used his mind control powers to convince every member of the cult to commit suicide by hand grenade, which they will do very soon. This is the only reason Huntress considers killing him (she even says \\\"you could have lived\\\" in the previous issue). The resulting explosions would probably kill Huntress and might kill Vixen, but they definitely will kill the all the kids, teenagers and adults who were under Brusaw\\\'s control. This is to say nothing of the five meta humans who may or may not resume their attack at any moment (Huntress later says that Brusaw got them to stand down, which appears to happen off screen).

He might have been laying on the ground, shot three times and with Huntress\\\'s boot on his neck, but his mind control powers still made him an immediate threat to everyone at the site. As an immediate threat, he can in no way be considered \\\"defeated\\\". If he was a threat at all before Huntress shot him the first time, then he was still a threat after she shot him, because his capacity to kill was not affected.

This scene wasn\\\'t about whether killing a defeated opponent is okay (because he wasn\\\'t defeated), it was about what it takes to get Huntress to cross the line (as it turns out, it\\\'s the mass murder of hundreds of people).

I\\\'m pretty sure this is the right place for this kind of discussion, but if not than I\\\'ll gladly take it to where it\\\'s more appropriate.

I just re-read issue 73 vol.1 of Birds of Pray in relation to the second example for \\\"If You Kill Him, You Will Be Just Like Him\\\" after my edit was changed back to what it was, with the following explanation:

\\\"No, he was on the ground and defeated. That was the issue: Whether killing a defeated opponent is okay.\\\"

In the issue, Brusaw has used his mind control powers to convince every member of the cult to commit suicide by hand grenade, which they will do very soon. This is the only reason Huntress considers killing him. The resulting explosions would probably kill Huntress and might kill Vixen. This is to say nothing of the five meta humans who may or may not resume their attack at any moment (Huntress later says that Brusaw got them to stand down, which happens off screen).

He might have been laying on the ground, shot three times and with Huntress\\\'s boot on his neck, but his mind control powers still made him an immediate threat to everyone at the site. As an immediate threat, he can in no way be considered \\\"defeated\\\".

This scene wasn\\\'t about whether killing a defeated opponent is okay (because he wasn\\\'t defeated), it was about what it takes to get Huntress to cross the line at this point in her life (as it turns out, it\\\'s the mass murder of hundreds of people).

I\\\'m pretty sure this is the right place for this kind of discussion, but if not than I\\\'ll gladly take it to where it\\\'s more appropriate.

I just re-read issue 73 vol.1 of Birds of Pray in relation to the second example for \\\"If You Kill Him, You Will Be Just Like Him\\\" after my edit was changed back to what it was, with the following explanation:

\\\"No, he was on the ground and defeated. That was the issue: Whether killing a defeated opponent is okay.\\\"

In the issue, Brusaw has used his mind control powers to convince every member of the cult to commit suicide by hand grenade, which they will do very soon. This is the only reason Huntress considers killing him. The resulting explosions would probably kill Huntress and might kill Vixen. This is to say nothing of the five meta humans who may or may not resume their attack at any moment (Huntress later says that Brusaw got them to stand down, which happens off screen).

He might have been laying on the ground, shot three times and with Huntress\\\'s boot on his neck, but his mind control powers still made him an immediate threat to everyone at the site. As an immediate threat, he can in no way be considered \\\"defeated\\\".

This scene wasn\\\'t about whether killing a defeated opponent is okay (because he wasn\\\'t defeated), it was about what it takes to get Huntress to cross the line.

We don\\\'t know enough about Inuyasha\\\'s parents to know if the marriage was maligned. The most information the manga ever gives us is a rant by Sesshoumaru when he\\\'s first introduced to the manga at Kaede\\\'s village, where he comments that Inuyasha\\\'s parents marriage was a stain on the family\\\'s honour. That doesn\\\'t tell us how it was treated or handled in general as Sesshoumaru was defined by the giant chip on his shoulder and their father\\\'s known servants (Myouga, Toutousai and Bokusenou) have displayed no issues at all with Inuyasha or his parents. Even the appearance of Sesshoumaru\\\'s mother wasn\\\'t used to explore the subject of Inuyasha\\\'s parents either.

We don\\\'t know enough about Inuyasha\\\'s parents to know if the marriage was maligned. The most information the manga ever gives us is a rant by Sesshoumaru when he\\\'s first introduced to the manga at Kaede\\\'s village, where he comments that Inuyasha\\\'s parents marriage was a stain on the family\\\'s honour. That doesn\\\'t tell us how it was treated or handled in general as Sesshoumaru was defined by the giant chip on his shoulder and their father\\\'s known servants (Myouga, Toutousai and Bokusenou) have displayed no issues at all with Inuyasha or his parents and the appearance of Sesshoumaru\\\'s mother wasn\\\'t used to explore the subject of Inuyasha\\\'s parents either.

We don\\\'t know enough about Inuyasha\\\'s parents to know if the marriage was maligned. The most information the manga ever gives us is a rant by Sesshoumaru when he\\\'s first introduced to the manga at Kaede\\\'s village, where he comments that Inuyasha\\\'s parents marriage was a stain on the family\\\'s honour. That doesn\\\'t tell us how it was treated or handled in general as their father\\\'s known servants (Myouga, Toutousai and Bokusenou) have displayed no issues at all with Inuyasha or his parents and the appearance of Sesshoumaru\\\'s mother wasn\\\'t used to explore the subject of Inuyasha\\\'s parents either.

We don\\\'t know enough about Inuyasha\\\'s parents to know if the marriage was maligned. The most information the manga ever gives us is a rant by Sesshoumaru when he\\\'s first introduced to the manga at Kaede\\\'s village, where he comments that Inuyasha\\\'s parents marriage was a stain on the family\\\'s honour. That doesn\\\'t tell us how it was viewed in general as their father\\\'s known servants (Myouga, Toutousai and Bokusenou) have displayed no issues at all with Inuyasha or his parents and the appearance of Sesshoumaru\\\'s mother wasn\\\'t used to explore the subject of Inuyasha\\\'s parents either.

As a result, I don\\\'t believe we\\\'ve can use Inuyasha\\\'s parents as an example of the trope due to lack of evidence (it would have to classify as an InterspeciesRomance instead). We can use Shiori\\\'s parents as a definite example and Jinenji\\\'s parents are a possible example depending on whether treatment of the surviving spouse after the death of one can be used as evidence.

We can actually use this trope on the main page, but only for Shiori\\\'s parents who were very definitely shown to have suffered persecution. There\\\'s some evidence for Jinenji\\\'s parents having been persecuted as well because Jinenji\\\'s mother is definitely being almost as persecuted as Jinenji when Kagome and Inuyasha meet them. That said, we don\\\'t know much about how Jinenji\\\'s parents managed when Jinenji\\\'s father was alive, so we don\\\'t know if Jinenji\\\'s mother only became vulnerable to persecution after her husband\\\'s death.