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[002] SomeName Current Version
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This is a long post that\'s in response to the fourth point on the Just Bugs Me page. (The one about general issues with animemusicvideos.org.) I felt my response was sufficiently long and specific that posting it there was too much; I\'ll keep the discussion to the discussion page, as it were.
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This is a long post that\\\'s in response to the fourth point on the Just Bugs Me page. (The one about general issues with animemusicvideos.org.) I felt my response was sufficiently long and specific that posting it there would start to make the page unreadable, especially if people wanted to respond to me. I\\\'ll keep the discussion to the discussion page, as it were.
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To start, while I can\'t directly comment on the \
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To start, while I can\\\'t directly comment on the \\\"community\\\" of the site (I haven\\\'t used it recently and didn\\\'t get intimately involved when I did), but I do think it\\\'s nice to have a place to go to download full-quality videos. Similarly, it was also useful to have a place to gain feedback on the videos and support on all the technical aspects of making them. Obviously, it\\\'s not the only source of tech support, but it is one of the few that\\\'s specific to this subject. It\\\'s a shame to direct generalized flaming and active attempts to bring down the site just because of problems with parts of the userbase; it seems similarly unfair to the site\\\'s own attitude toward YouTube.

There are a few more general criticisms I\\\'d like to respond to, though. First off, it\\\'s not necessarily hypocritical to approve of {{Fan Vid}}s and not all forms of piracy. Just because various actions are grouped together legally doesn\\\'t mean that you have to view them together ethically; compare people who only pirate works that aren\\\'t made available for purchase, or who believe that theft can be justified based on who you\\\'re stealing from and how much you need what you steal. You might not agree with the position that only certain forms of piracy are ethical, but that doesn\\\'t mean someone is idiotic for taking that position.

Secondly, I\\\'m not sure that it\\\'s valid to fault the site owner for folding under legal pressure. It\\\'s easy to cast stones when it\\\'s someone else\\\'s job to pick up the legal fees against a large business. Somehow, I doubt that a well-written letter about why he thinks the videos are legal would suffice to call off the opposition, and not just because they pretty definitely are NOT legal when they involve (albeit indirectly) distributing unaltered music tracks. Is it really his responsibility to ward off legal attacks? As I understand it, the site is a free service to users in the first place.

Finally, While I again can\\\'t comment on the way the criticism was delivered, most of what I see listed here is valid criticisms, and would be considered such in most works. Lack of originality in particular is something you hear about in almost every medium. It\\\'s possible to work around, but if there\\\'s nothing else to set the work apart, it tends to come across as laziness or inability. More specific issues, like beat synch and video quality, can improve over time as you learn about new software and get better with the old. There\\\'s plenty of freeware to help with cleaning up footage. People may have been unpleasant about these points, but they\\\'re not inherently cruel to bring up.

The ability to take criticism is important for anyone who produces for a creative medium. A lot of people who make {{Fan Vid}}s will actually deliberately solicit comments to obtain third party feedback on how they might improve; I\\\'ve certainly done it. That\\\'s not to say that you have to agree with all of them, or to feel terrible if a lot of people dislike your work. Since it\\\'s just a hobby, what\\\'s really important is that \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are satisfied with the end result. Another part of taking criticism is just accepting that not everyone is going to like what you make.
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[[folder:Deletions Part 2]]
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*** Peter has an incest kink even with people he isn\'t related to. He doesn\'t make a move on Simone or Caitlin until Simone says Peter\'s \
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*** Peter has an incest kink even with people he isn\\\'t related to. He doesn\\\'t make a move on Simone or Caitlin until Simone says Peter\\\'s \\\"like a son\\\" to her father and Caitlin\\\'s brother calls him \\\"family\\\". So Yeah.
** Then there\\\'s the frankly insane levels of LesYay between half-sisters Morgana and Morgause. Morgause likes touching her sister\\\'s face waaay too much.
* Some viewers mistakenly interpreted the brother/sister relationship between Simon and River in \\\'\\\'{{Firefly}}/{{Serenity}}\\\'\\\' as something...{{squick}}ier. This leaves out the important fact that it would be \\\'\\\'natural\\\'\\\' for the two of them to be very close, considering the \\\'\\\'immense\\\'\\\' trauma they went through in the years prior, and the strange and difficult situations they find themselves in during the course of the series.
** The deleted \\\"We want you to marry us\\\" scene from \\\"Our Mrs. Reynolds,\\\" while it was funny and cute, probably did little to ease said discomfort among the viewers.
** An in-universe example was brought up in the episode \\\"War Stories\\\" of Mal/Zoe, even the normally lecherous Jayne was disgusted enough to comment how it was \\\"downright unsettling\\\".
* In the StarTrekTheOriginalSeries, Kirk/Khan. Admittedly, neither Kirk nor the writers of the show had a clue how significant Khan was going to be, and it\\\'s not really there in the second movie....but still. Squick.
* Justin and Iris from \\\'\\\'{{Carnivale}}\\\'\\\'. It\\\'s canon!
** Personally, it\\\'s the [[ParentalIncest Justin/]]\\\'\\\'[[AreYouMyMummy Sofie]]\\\'\\\' I have trouble with.
* \\\'\\\'{{Supernatural}}\\\'\\\': Wincest and Daddycest. Hell, Mommy/YED is \\\'\\\'{{canon}}\\\'\\\' (if \\\"canon\\\" means anything more than a deal-sealing kiss, which is the demons\\\' modus operandi--ask Bobby).
** Even worse, the YED was wearing her [[ParentalIncest dad\\\'s meat suit]] at the time. [[FanDisservice I never wanted to associate Mitch Pileggi with that, dammit.]]
** And then there\\\'s YED/John. Considering that all demons seal their deals a certain way.... YED has subtext with [[MemeticMolester everyone]], including ALL of the Winchesters.
** Alistair/Dean. With all that talk about \\\"poking and prodding\\\" and the fact that they were in hell so it\\\'s pretty fricking likely he tortured Dean that way, the writers went as far with the subtext as they were allowed. [[NightmareFuel Silly writers.]]
*** Heck, even Sam and Dean get into meta-verse NoYay. One episode has, due to magical influence, the two brothers finding fanfiction starring them \\\'together\\\'. Dean is understandably [[{{Squick}} squicked]].
-->Dean: Now that\\\'s just \\\'\\\'sick\\\'\\\'.
* {{House}}/Tritter. As others have noted, this is a hard pairing to go into, seeing as how Tritter made most viewers\\\' skin crawl and most of their fanfic includes either dubcon or noncon.
* Mr. Schuester and the Beiste from \\\"{{Glee}}\\\"
* Everyone in \\\'\\\'ArrestedDevelopment\\\'\\\' since they\\\'re \\\'\\\'all related\\\'\\\'. Especially Buster and Lucille, but occasionally GOB and Michael, also. Euugh.
* [[BeingHuman George/Tully.]] It starts out fun, but ends with [[spoiler:[[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything what looks an awful lot like attempted rape]]]].
* \\\'\\\'BattlestarGalactica\\\'\\\': Cavil/Ellen ([[spoiler:Especially because of his OedipusComplex]]) and Cavil/Boomer.
** More explicity, and more creepily: Kara/Leoben
*** Made hilarious when you take into account \\\'\\\'Katee Sackhoff herself\\\'\\\' [[http://www.buddytv.com/articles/battlestar-galactica/katee-sackhoff-talks-battlesta-18059.aspx shipping Kara/Leoben.]]
* \\\'\\\'{{StargateSG-1}}\\\'\\\': O\\\'Neill/Maybourne. Especially in season 6\\\'s Paradise Lost. Could be considered \\\"FoeYay\\\" if it weren\\\'t so damn icky and just plain wrong.
* \\\'\\\'TheSarahConnorChronicles\\\'\\\' has some FoeYay between Cameron and Allison. Let the disturbing realization of \\\'\\\'that\\\'\\\' kick in.
** There\\\'s also the subtle indicators of future John Connor and Allison, which would mean a thirty-something man with a teenage girl...
** Don\\\'t forget about [[ManipulativeBastard Jesse]]/[[UnequalPairing Riely]]...
* An episode of \\\'\\\'[=McMillan=] and Wife\\\'\\\' had a double for Mac (also played by Rock Hudson) doing a surprising sensual tango with Mildred (Nancy Walker).
** How about November/[[spoiler: Paul (Note: I din\\\'t say Mellie)]], made all so worse when they showed him having sex with her after the revelation.
* The (utterly pointless) DVD extended cut of the \\\'\\\'DoctorWho\\\'\\\' story \\\"The Five Doctors\\\" has a sequence in which the Fifth Doctor and his \\\'\\\'grand-daughter\\\'\\\' Susan appear to be coming on to each other. In the commentary to the original cut of the story on the DVD, the actress playing Susan explicitly admits that the scene was cut for that reason.
** Then there\\\'s all that weird newfound chemistry between Mickey and Jackie in the season four finale that many, many fans would like to not see. Mickey even says he\\\'ll miss Jackie the most! And by that, he means he\\\'ll miss his ex-girlfriend\\\'s \\\'\\\'mother\\\'\\\' the most.
*** [[{{MILF}} And what\\\'s wrong with that, again?]]
*** Newfound? There\\\'s some definite innuendo between them in \\\"Love And Monsters\\\", and in \\\"Doomsday\\\" Mickey has an interesting facial expression when Jackie tells Pete that she was faithful to his alternate counterpart\\\'s memory.
*** They\\\'ve still got nothing on the Naismiths from End Of Time. Eugh. At first you think they\\\'re a creepy husband and wife but then they turn out to be father and daughter...
** The co-dependent Doctor/Master No Yay. Especially new series Master seems to have taken to hitting the Doctor when he can\\\'t defend himself.
** As if watching \\\'\\\'The Twin Dilemma\\\'\\\' wasn\\\'t [[WallBanger bad enough on it\\\'s own]], the level of affection between the Sixth Doctor and his old school teacher Azmael is kinda disturbing.
** While the scene in Flesh and Stone were Amy attempts to seduce the Doctor does have it\\\'s fans on the FetishFuel pages, many find it creepy due to the fact that Amy has been obessed with the Doctor since childhood, they\\\'re in her childhood bedroom with all the cartoons she drew and dolls she made of the two of them with her wedding dress hanging on the wardrobe. And the Doctor [[RapeIsOkayWhenItsFemaleOnMale clearly doesn\\\'t want to have sex with her and she\\\'s ignoring him.]]
** Apparently Matthew Waterhouse had a few unwanted advances from writer/director Peter Grimwade, [[RealitySubtext which might explain why]] the male researchers in Grimwade-directed \\\"Kinda\\\" seemed to like getting a little cozy with Adric.
* This one may very well get deleted owing to the sheer popularity of the ship, but...Guy/Marian from \\\'\\\'Series/RobinHood\\\'\\\'. Over time, this pairing became significantly more popular than Robin/Marian, (thanks to the appeal of Richard Armitage) but it was just [[{{Squick}} squicky]]. Richard Armitage himself said that his idea in portraying the relationship was to make the audience \\\"squirm every time [Guy] got close to Marian,\\\" which results in several scenes in which he looms over her in a domineering way with an arrogant smirk on his face, whilst Marian\\\'s body language \\\'\\\'screams\\\'\\\' \\\"stay away from me\\\". It eventually played out as an abusive relationship, in which Guy burns down Marian\\\'s house, makes her the subject of several lewd comments, shoves her to ground, hits her father, yells at her and threatens her constantly, and eventually [[spoiler:stabs her in the stomach]] in a scene that was specifically shot to have sexual connotations. [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys But try telling that to the fangirls...]]
** Also worth noting is that Richard Armitage (Guy) was closer to forty than thirty when he played Guy of Gisborne, and Lucy Griffith (Marian) was still only a teenager.
* \\\'\\\'DeepSpaceNine\\\'\\\' has a certain amount of Kira/Dukat that even she quickly realizes is squicky.
** Not to mention Garak/Ziyal. C\\\'mon, she was about half his age, it was weird.
*** It gets worse when you find out the writers hooked the two of them up to distract from all the {{Ho Yay}} between Garak and Doctor Bashir.
** And Sloane seemed to have something of a creepy obssesion with Doctor Bashir, including sneaking into his bedroom in the middle of the night and hiding in the shadows watching him sleep...
* Some subsets of \\\'\\\'CriminalMinds\\\'\\\' fandom are intent upon shipping \\\'\\\'Hotch/Foyet\\\'\\\'. Yes, the buttoned-up married-for-ages FBI agent and the guy who [[spoiler: attacked him in his home, very possibly raped him, then went on to kill his ex-wife]]. Keeping in mind non-con is the \\\'\\\'least\\\'\\\' squicky of the issues surrounding that pairing . . .
** It\\\'s pretty clear, at least, that Foyet is intent on squicking Hotch out by making reference to the idea. He talks a lot about the sexual dimension of knifework while repeatedly stabbing Hotch, to the point where his language starts to verge on dirty talk. And he brings that idea up again later, when he\\\'s talkng to Hotch on the phone. \\\"Tsk tsk. Be gentle. Like I was with you.\\\"
*** Please God, NoJustNo.
* DrakeAndJosh. Just...Drake and Josh. C\\\'mon, they\\\'ve kissed each other several times, on the lips at least once, are very touchy feely and just in general act/bicker like an old married couple. Except they\\\'re brothers. {{Squick}}
** [[NotBloodSiblings They\\\'re \\\'\\\'step\\\'\\\'-brothers]]
* \\\'\\\'HarryPotter\\\'\\\': Lucius/Harry. Need I say more?
** Topped with Dumbledore/Harry.
** Harry/Voldemort. If the above picture (Page Image from [[http://mathia.110mb.com/ Marthia Arkoniel]].) didn\\\'t already clue you in...
*** [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything Their wands connected and a shock of electricity ran between them. Time seemed to hold still]]. It HAPPENED, but you [[BrainBleach didn\\\'t want to SEE it]]. Of course, [[YourMileageMayVary your mileage may]] [[FetishFuel vary]].
*** Especially the graveyard scene as featured in the movie. Let\\\'s face it, RalphFiennes, who played Voldemort, is sexy. He\\\'s got Harry tied up, which would not be as bad in a different context. But then you look at the face and remember what character this is. I blame the scriptwriters and choreographers.
** There\\\'s Harry/Vernon stuff out there.
*** [[FlatWhat What.]]
** Riddle/Ginny. Especially when you consider that Ginny was eleven when it would have happened. Subverted as it\\\'s actually a somewhat popular ship but just \\\'\\\'think\\\'\\\' about it.
** This troper has run across fics pairing Dumbledore with the *Sorting Hat* and with Fawkes. Both fics sent her into BSOD mode.
** Let\\\'s just make this easy. Go to Fiction Alley\\\'s [[http://forums.fictionalley.org/park/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4591 list of ships.]] Cry for your lost innocence.
* Frodo Baggins/Samwise Gamgee in \\\'\\\'{{The Lord of the Rings}}\\\'\\\'. Good freaking lord, please stop writing. There\\\'s ample justification for their relationship. Going through hell together sort of puts all notion of personal space/modesty/societal norms behind you. Not to mention the book has Frodo as a wise, fatherly figure for the young, I\\\'ll-follow-you-my-general Sam...the entire point of their relationship was to show love knows no bounds and that even Hell can\\\'t spoil a good friendship.
** And thankfully, Peter Jackson understood this.
*** [[AdaptationDecay That\\\'s sarcasm, right?]]
** Legolas/Gimli. Or Gimli/anyone, really.
** And Gollum/Frodo. Dear lord. WHY?!
** Not as bad as Gollum/Frodo, but also Merry/Pippin. The Sam/Frodo thing above applies, plus they\\\'re cousins and possibly grew up around each other.
** It\\\'s safe to say any same-sex attachment in the book/movie was strictly platonic. The friendships/male camaraderie in the series were influenced by Tolkien\\\'s own friendships...and Tolkien was so in love with his wife, every canon romance in his whole world was influenced by his and her bond.
*** Also, he was pretty staunchly Catholic, and they really really didn\\\'t go for homosexuality back then . . . or mostly now.
*** Don\\\'t try to argue logic with slashers.
** Er, how about Wormtongue/Eowyn? Especially in the movie. That\\\'s a lot creepier than any of the slash pairings.
* \\\'\\\'{{Twilight}}\\\'\\\'. The thought of non-parental overtones between Carlisle Cullen and any of his vampire \\\"children\\\", the semi-incestuous attitude of the Cullen family in general (despite how they\\\'re all pretending to be adopted siblings), the whole imprinting mess... not cool.
** Made worse (or perhaps better) by the {{Subtext}} of the film in the flashback which features Carlisle biting Edward, and the fact that Carlisle refers to our [[BishieSparkle sparkling]] hero as \\\"beautiful\\\" when recounting it in the book. Edward is [[InformedAttractiveness supposedly]] extremely attractive, presumably as a human as well, but it really does nothing to lessen the weirdness.
*** Made hilarious by Pattinson\\\'s admission that the actor playing Carlisle whispered \\\"You\\\'re so sexy\\\" during that scene to give him a realistically freaked-out expression.
** Edward is supposedly cold to the touch, as well as sparkly, leading to people dubbing his equipment \\\"sparkle peen\\\". When a company goes as far as to [[http://io9.com/5344802/twilight-inspired-sparkle-sex-toy-heralds-the-coming-apocalypse manufacture a sparkly dildo that you can put in the fridge for the full \\\'effect\\\']] (NSFW), and the comments page is filled with \\\'\\\'reviews\\\'\\\'... it doesn\\\'t bear thinking about.
*** [[FlatWhat What.]]
** How about the werewolves who \\\"imprint\\\" on girls who aren\\\'t even potty-trained yet? The best S. Meyer can give us is that it\\\'s totally not a sexual relationship \\\'\\\'yet.\\\'\\\' Implying, of course, that one day it will be.
* \\\'\\\'HouseOfLeaves\\\'\\\': Pelafina/Johnny. She \\\'\\\'does\\\'\\\' keep pointing out how strong and handsome he is, just like his father...
** And if you accept the reading that \\\'\\\'she\\\'\\\' wrote all those awkward sex scenes about her son...
* ANY mention of [[FoeYay Erik/Raoul]] to a \\\'\\\'PhantomOfTheOpera\\\'\\\' fan.
** Sadly, this particular pairing seems to have increased in popularity following the film of the musical, which featured the Phantom tying Raoul up spread-eagle in the final scene. Thank you \\\'\\\'so\\\'\\\' bloody much, Joel Schumacher.
** Even worse is that the movie takes what is normally a well-liked ship and [[UpToEleven squicks it up to eleven]]. The Phantom begins tutoring Christine \\\'\\\'when she\\\'s nine\\\'\\\'. So that he could stalk and attempt to rape her when she grew up. Made EVEN ICKIER by the fact that Emmy Rossum was only 16 during filming.
* In \\\'\\\'MaximumRide\\\'\\\', Max demonizes a female character for exchanging small talk with her [[StrangledByTheRedString boyfriend]], claiming that said female was hitting on him. A similar scene between two [[HoYay male]] [[MadScientist mad scientists]] occurs early in the third book, and... well. YourMileageMayVary.
** To some: [[BrotherSisterIncest Violet/Klaus]].
*** Especially in the movie, [[HollywoodHomely where puberty has been really generous with]] [[http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/2800000/Violet-Klaus-and-Sunny-a-series-of-unfortunate-events-2886009-1050-699.jpg Klaus]].
* \\\'\\\'{{Dragonlance}}\\\'\\\' Caramon/Raistlin.
* In \\\'\\\'{{Nation}}\\\'\\\', the way the mutineers treat Daphne sometimes comes off like this: they call her names like \\\"Princess\\\" (\\\"to make her skin crawl,\\\" she thinks) and one \\\"never took his eyes off [her] when she was on deck.\\\" When [[CompleteMonster Cox]] [[LampshadeHanging points it out]], asking if one of his cronies \\\"tried to mess [her] up,\\\" it just comes off as \\\'\\\'more\\\'\\\' NoYay on his part. \\\'\\\'{{Squick}}.\\\'\\\'
* [[YourMileageMayVary YMMV]], but also siblings Estha and Rahel in Arundhati Roy\\\'s {{The God of Small Things}}. Near the end of the book there is implied {{Twincest}} between the two of them. Sure, they haven\\\'t seen each other in 23 years and they\\\'re either so distant they\\\'re like strangers or so close they\\\'re like one person but \\\'\\\'[[{{Squick}} still]]\\\'\\\'...
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