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[005] Werebazs Current Version
Changed line(s) 1 from:
2: No there really isnt a difference, because those prisoners are near a village only because the army dragged them there. The Federation couldn't land their troops right next to Theed, because as we see in the climax the city does have air-defense. They needed to land far away to form up, which takes time, giving Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan the opportunity to
to:
2: No there really isnt a difference, because those prisoners are near a village only because the army dragged them there. The Federation couldn\'t land their troops right next to Theed, because as we see in the climax the city does have air-defense. They needed to land far away to form up, which takes time, giving Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan the opportunity to \"run ahead\" them, and warn whoever they came across, which is exactly what happened with the Gungans. Like I said this is pure nitpicking of the dialoge. Qui-Gon didn\'t have any real plan, just get down there and help whoever they can, and however they can.
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3: Acknowledging a stupid move in-universe, according to the IdiotPlot main page, makes it an example of CouldHaveAvoidedThisPlot, so it\'s not an example. Again, these droids are meant to be a disposeable and cheap security force, designed to repell boarding pirates. It\'s only a flaw, because they are not used as intended. Later models have this issue fixed precisely because by that point they were building them for the purpose of invading planets, and because the events of this movie made them realise that this is an exploitable flaw, if the droids are used that way.
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5: We see only a few dozen ships, because the others are too far away for the camera. This is an argument against the distance the Jedi would have to travel, that ignores distance. And like I said, both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan was capable of taking care of himself without the other, even if they do get separated by a large distance, which was highly unlikely.
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7: And that\'s not IdiotPlot. Qui-Gon not trying other methods is every bit as much an assumption on the viewer\'s part, as him trying other methods. Would a throw-away line improve things? Yes. Is it absolutely necessary? No.
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8: It\'s been established that Watto had him race before, and it has been established that the Mos Espa community of slaves is tight-knit. Noone else knows about the deal Qui-Gon made with Watto, nor about the pod-racer not being Watto\'s. So noone has a reason to make those questions. Qui-Gon running up to him, and lifting him to his shoulder is a stupid move, and likely the reason they\'re found by Maul\'s probe.
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9: On the other hand, Tatooine is sparcely populated, poor and outside of the Republic. There\'s few reason for anyone not important to contact Corruscant from there, so it\'s a risk they could not take.
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11: Okay, fair enough.
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12: Valorum was counting on that merely sending the Jedi there would be enough for the Federation to cow, and he was right. If it wasn\'t for Sidious they would\'ve backed down without the Jedi even having to relay the Chancellor\'s demands. That\'s what I meant by \"bully them\". Sidious didn\'t see the Jedi intereing because given the Chancellor\'s predicament, he didn\'t expect that Valorum would have the guts to go behind the back of the Senate, so he had to improvise.
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13: The arrogance of the Jedi order is an over-arcing theme in the prequels. They\'re not acting stupid to make the plot work, they\'re acting stupid because they \'\'are\'\' stupid. Also my main issue with this entry is that it admits that the Jedi have no solid reason to believe Qui-Gon, but regardless complains that they don\'t believe Qui-Gon.
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14: It\'s still a risk he had to calculate. He made a mistake by not using Force speed, but it\'s not an unjustifiable mistake born of stupidity.
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17: As far as we know, yes Qui-Gon was the only one willing to toe the line, which is precisely why the Council had issues with him. Also again, not attempting to free Shmi is an ethically and morally bad decision, but the fact they tolerate slavery at large outside of the Republic dwarfes it, and is again a sign of the Order\'s corruption. Is it n ungrateful to not help a woman who helped their own? Yes. Is it stupidity to make the plot work? No.
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23: The point is the only way they can be absolutely sure Anakin does not end up in the hands of the Sith, is by putting a Jedi next to him to constantly watch him, and if they already have to do that, they might as well train him (the fact that it instead backfired because the Sith in question is Palpatine is irrelevant to the point). Choosing Obi-Wan to be this Jedi \'\'is\'\' stupid, I never argued that. However choosing to train Anakin by itself is not. It is a risk, that they must take, because the alternatives present an even bigger risk. By training Anakin they at least give a token chance for things to turn out differently from what they fear.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
2: No there really isnt a difference, because those prisoners are near a village only because the army dragged them there. The Federation couldn't land their troops right next to Theed, because as we see in the climax the city does have air-defense. They needed to land far away to form up, which takes time, giving Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan the opportunity to
to:
2: No there really isnt a difference, because those prisoners are near a village only because the army dragged them there. The Federation couldn\'t land their troops right next to Theed, because as we see in the climax the city does have air-defense. They needed to land far away to form up, which takes time, giving Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan the opportunity to \"run ahead\" them, and warn whoever they came across, which is exactly what happened with the Gungans. Like I said this is pure nitpicking of the dialoge. Qui-Gon didn\'t have any real plan, just get down there and help whoever they can, and however they can.
----
3: Acknowledging a stupid move in-universe, according to the IdiotPlot main page, makes it an example of CouldHaveAvoidedThisPlot, so it\'s not an example. Again, these droids are meant to be a disposeable and cheap security force, designed to repell boarding pirates. It\'s only a flaw, because they are not used as intended. Later models have this issue fixed precisely because by that point they were building them for the purpose of invading planets, and because the events of this movie made them realise that this is an exploitable flaw, if the droids are used that way.
----
5: We see only a few dozen ships, because the others are too far away for the camera. This is an argument against the distance the Jedi would have to travel, that ignores distance. And like I said, both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan was capable of taking care of himself without the other, even if they do get separated by a large distance, which was highly unlikely.
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7: And that\'s not IdiotPlot. Qui-Gon not trying other methods is every bit as much an assumption on the viewer\'s part, as him trying other methods. Would a throw-away line improve things? Yes. Is it absolutely necessary? No.
----
8: It\'s been established that Watto had him race before, and it has been established that the Mos Espa community of slaves is tight-knit. Noone else knows about the deal Qui-Gon made with Watto, nor about the pod-racer not being Watto\'s. So noone has a reason to make those questions. Qui-Gon running up to him, and lifting him to his shoulder is a stupid move, and likely the reason they\'re found by Maul\'s probe.
----
9: On the other hand, Tatooine is sparcely populated, poor and outside of the Republic. There\'s few reason for anyone not important to contact Corruscant from there, so it\'s a risk they could not take.
----
11: Okay, fair enough.
----
12: Valorum was counting on that merely sending the Jedi there would be enough for the Federation to cow, and he was right. If it wasn\'t for Sidious they would\'ve backed down without the Jedi even having to relay the Chancellor\'s demands. That\'s what I meant by \"bully them\". Sidious didn\'t see the Jedi intereing because given the Chancellor\'s predicament, he didn\'t expect that Valorum would have the guts to go behind the back of the Senate, so he had to improvise.
----
13: The arrogance of the Jedi order is an over-arcing plot point. They\'re not acting stupid to make the plot work, they\'re acting stupid because they \'\'are\'\' stupid.
----
14: It\'s still a risk he had to calculate. He made a mistake by not using Force speed, but it\'s not an unjustifiable mistake born of stupidity.
----
17: As far as we know, yes Qui-Gon was the only one willing to toe the line, which is precisely why the Council had issues with him. Also again, not attempting to free Shmi is an ethically and morally bad decision, but the fact they tolerate slavery at large outside of the Republic dwarfes it, and is again a sign of the Order\'s corruption. Is it n ungrateful to not help a woman who helped their own? Yes. Is it stupidity to make the plot work? No.
----
23: The point is the only way they can be absolutely sure Anakin does not end up in the hands of the Sith, is by putting a Jedi next to him to constantly watch him, and if they already have to do that, they might as well train him (the fact that it instead backfired because the Sith in question is Palpatine is irrelevant to the point). Choosing Obi-Wan to be this Jedi \'\'is\'\' stupid, I never argued that. However choosing to train Anakin by itself is not. It is a risk, that they must take, because the alternatives present an even bigger risk. By training Anakin they at least give a token chance for things to turn out differently from what they fear.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
2: No there really isnt a difference, because those prisoners are near a village only because the army dragged them there. The Federation couldn't land their troops right next to Theed, because as we see in the climax the city does have air-defense. They needed to land far away to form up, which takes time, giving Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan the opportunity to
to:
2: No there really isnt a difference, because those prisoners are near a village only because the army dragged them there. The Federation couldn\'t land their troops right next to Theed, because as we see in the climax the city does have air-defense. They needed to land far away to form up, which takes time, giving Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan the opportunity to \"run ahead\" them, and warn whoever they came across, which is exactly what happened with the Gungans. Like I said this is pure nitpicking of the dialoge. Qui-Gon didn\'t have any real plan, just get down there and help whoever they can, and however they can.
----
3: Acknowledging a stupid move in-universe, according to the IdiotPlot main page, makes it an example of CouldHaveAvoidedThisPlot, so it\'s not an example. Again, these droids are meant to be a disposeable and cheap security force, designed to repell boarding pirates. It\'s only a flaw, because they are not used as intended. Later models have this issue fixed precisely because by that point they were building them for the purpose of invading planets, and because the events of this movie made them realise that this is an exploitable flaw, if the droids are used that way.
----
5: We see only a few dozen ships, because the others are too far away for the camera. This is an argument against the distance the Jedi would have to travel, that ignores distance. And like I said, both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan was capable of taking care of himself without the other, even if they do get separated by a large distance, which was highly unlikely.
----
7: And that\'s not IdiotPlot. Qui-Gon not trying other methods is every bit as much an assumption on the viewer\'s part, as him trying other methods. Would a throw-away line improve things? Yes. Is it absolutely necessary? No.
----
8: It\'s been established that Watto had him race before, and it has been established that the Mos Espa community of slaves is tight-knit. Noone else knows about the deal Qui-Gon made with Watto, nor about the pod-racer not being Watto\'s. So noone has a reason to make those questions. Qui-Gon running up to him, and lifting him to his shoulder is a stupid move, and likely the reason they\'re found by Maul\'s probe.
----
9: On the other hand, Tatooine is sparcely populated, poor and outside of the Republic. There\'s few reason for anyone not important to contact Corruscant from there, so monitoring transmissions sent to Corruscant would not be a big deal.
----
11: Okay, fair enough.
----
12: Valorum was counting on that merely sending the Jedi there would be enough for the Federation to cow, and he was right. If it wasn\'t for Sidious they would\'ve backed down without the Jedi even having to relay the Chancellor\'s demands. That\'s what I meant by \"bully them\". Sidious didn\'t see the Jedi intereing because given the Chancellor\'s predicament, he didn\'t expect that Valorum would have the guts to go behind the back of the Senate, so he had to improvise.
----
13: The arrogance of the Jedi order is an over-arcing plot point. They\'re not acting stupid to make the plot work, they\'re acting stupid because they \'\'are\'\' stupid.
----
14: It\'s still a risk he had to calculate. He made a mistake by not using Force speed, but it\'s not an unjustifiable mistake born of stupidity.
----
17: As far as we know, yes Qui-Gon was the only one willing to toe the line, which is precisely why the Council had issues with him. Also again, not attempting to free Shmi is an ethically and morally bad decision, but the fact they tolerate slavery at large outside of the Republic dwarfes it, and is again a sign of the Order\'s corruption. Is it n ungrateful to not help a woman who helped their own? Yes. Is it stupidity to make the plot work? No.
----
23: The point is the only way they can be absolutely sure Anakin does not end up in the hands of the Sith, is by putting a Jedi next to him to constantly watch him, and if they already have to do that, they might as well train him (the fact that it instead backfired because the Sith in question is Palpatine is irrelevant to the point). Choosing Obi-Wan to be this Jedi \'\'is\'\' stupid, I never argued that. However choosing to train Anakin by itself is not. It is a risk, that they must take, because the alternatives present an even bigger risk. By training Anakin they at least give a token chance for things to turn out differently from what they fear.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
2: No there really isnt a difference, because those prisoners are near a village only because the army dragged them there. The Federation couldn't land their troops right next to Theed, because as we see in the climax the city does have air-defense. They needed to land far away to form up, which takes time, giving Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan the opportunity to
to:
2: No there really isnt a difference, because those prisoners are near a village only because the army dragged them there. The Federation couldn\'t land their troops right next to Theed, because as we see in the climax the city does have air-defense. They needed to land far away to form up, which takes time, giving Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan the opportunity to \"run ahead\" them, and warn whoever they came across, which is exactly what happened with the Gungans. Like I said this is pure nitpicking of the dialoge. Qui-Gon didn\'t have any real plan, just get down there and help whoever they can, and however they can.
----
3: Acknowledging a stupid move in-universe, according to the IdiotPlot main page, makes it an example of CouldHaveAvoidedThisPlot, so it\'s not an example. Again, these droids are meant to be a disposeable and cheap security force, designed to repell boarding pirates. It\'s only a flaw, because they are not used as intended. Later models have this issue fixed precisely because by that point they were building them for the purpose of invading planets, and because the events of this movie made them realise that this is an exploitable flaw, if the droids are used that way.
----
5: We see only a few dozen ships, because the others are too far away for the camera. This is an argument against the distance the Jedi would have to travel, that ignores distance. And like I said, both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan was capable of taking care of himself without the other, even if they do get separated by a large distance, which was highly unlikely.
----
7: And that\'s not IdiotPlot. Qui-Gon not trying other methods is every bit as much an assumption on the viewer\'s part, as him trying other methods. Would a throw-away line improve things? Yes. Is it absolutely necessary? No.
----
8: It\'s been established that Watto had him race before, and it has been established that the Mos Espa community of slaves is tight-knit. Noone else knows about the deal Qui-Gon made with Watto, nor about the pod-racer not being Watto\'s. So noone has a reason to make those questions. Qui-Gon running up to him, and lifting him to his shoulder is a stupid move, and likely the reason they\'re found by Maul\'s probe.
----
9: On the other hand, Tatooine is sparcely populated, poor and outside of the Republic. There\'s few reason for anyone not important to contact Corruscant from there, so monitoring transmissions sent to Corruscant would not be a big deal.
----
11: Okay, fair enough.
----
12: Valorum was counting on that merely sending the Jedi there would be enough for the Federation to cow, and he was right. If it wasn\'t for Sidious they would\'ve backed down without the Jedi even having to relay the Chancellor\'s demands. That\'s what I meant by \"bully them\". Sidious didn\'t see the Jedi intereing because given the Chancellor\'s predicament, he didn\'t expect that Valorum would have the guts to go behind the back of the Senate, so he had to improvise.
----
13: The arrogance of the Jedi order is an over-arcing plot point. They\'re not acting stupid to make the plot work, they\'re acting stupid because they \'\'are\'\' stupid.
----
14: It\'s still a risk he had to calculate. He made a mistake by not using Force speed, but it\'s not an unjustifiable mistake born of stupidity.
----
17: As far as we know, yes Qui-Gon was the only one willing to toe the line, which is precisely why the Council had issues with him. Also again, not attempting to free Shmi is an ethically and morally bad decision, but the fact they tolerate slavery at large outside of the Republic dwarfes it, and is again a sign of the Order\'s corruption. Is it n ungrateful to not help a woman who helped their own? Yes. Is it stupidity to make the plot work? No.
----
23: The point is the only way they can be absolutely sure Anakin does not end up in the hands of the Sith, is by putting a Jedi next to him (the fact that it instead backfired because the Sith in question is Palpatine is irrelevant to the point). Choosing Obi-Wan to be this Jedi \'\'is\'\' stupid, I never argued that. However choosing to train Anakin by itself is not. It is a risk, that they must take, because the alternatives present an even bigger risk. By training Anakin they at least give a token chance for things to turn out differently from what they fear.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
2: No there really isnt a difference, because those prisoners are near a village only because the army dragged them there. The Federation couldn't land their troops right next to Theed, because as we see in the climax the city does have air-defense. They needed to land far away to form up, which takes time, giving Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan the opportunity to
to:
2: No there really isnt a difference, because those prisoners are near a village only because the army dragged them there. The Federation couldn\'t land their troops right next to Theed, because as we see in the climax the city does have air-defense. They needed to land far away to form up, which takes time, giving Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan the opportunity to \"run ahead\" them, and warn whoever they came across, which is exactly what happened with the Gungans. Like I said this is pure nitpicking of the dialoge. Qui-Gon didn\'t have any real plan, just get down there and help whoever they can, and however they can.
----
3: Acknowledging a stupid move in-universe, according to the IdiotPlot main page, makes it an example of CouldHaveAvoidedThisPlot, so it\'s not an example. Again, these droids are meant to be a disposeable and cheap security force, designed to repell boarding pirates. It\'s only a flaw, because they are not used as intended. Later models have this issue fixed precisely because by that point they were building them for the purpose of invading planets, and because the events of this movie made them realise that this is an exploitable flaw, if the droids are used that way.
----
5: We see only a few dozen ships, because the others are too far away for the camera. This is an argument against the distance the Jedi would have to travel, that ignores distance. And like I said, both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan was capable of taking care of himself without the other, even if they do get separated by a large distance, which was highly unlikely.
----
7: And that\'s not IdiotPlot. Qui-Gon not trying other methods is every bit as much an assumption on the viewer\'s part, as him trying other methods. Would a throw-away line improve things? Yes. Is it absolutely necessary? No.
----
8: It\'s been established that Watto had him race before, and it has been established that the Mos Espa community of slaves is tight-knit. Noone else knows about the deal Qui-Gon made with Watto, nor about the pod-racer not being Watto\'s. So noone has a reason to make those questions. Qui-Gon running up to him, and lifting him to his shoulder is a stupid move, and likely the reason they\'re found by Maul\'s probe.
----
9: On the other hand, Tatooine is sparcely populated, poor and outside of the Republic. There\'s few reason for anyone not important to contact Corruscant from there, so monitoring transmissions sent to Corruscant would not be a big deal.
----
11: Okay, fair enough.
----
12: Valorum was counting on that merely sending the Jedi there would be enough for the Federation to cow, and he was right. If it wasn\'t for Sidious they would\'ve backed down without the Jedi even having to relay the Chancellor\'s demands. That\'s what I meant by \"bully them\". Sidious didn\'t see the Jedi intereing because given the Chancellor\'s predicament, he didn\'t expect that Valorum would have the guts to go behind the back of the Senate, so he had to improvise.
----
13: The arrogance of the Jedi order is an over-arcing plot point. They\'re not acting stupid to make the plot work, they\'re acting stupid because they \'\'are\'\' stupid.
----
14: It\'s still a risk he had to calculate. He made a mistake by not using Force speed, but it\'s not an unjustifiable mistake born of stupidity.
----
17: As far as we know, yes Qui-Gon was the only one willing to toe the line, which is precisely why the Council had issues with him. Also again, not attempting to free Shmi is an ethically and morally bad decision, but the fact they tolerate slavery at large outside of the Republic dwarfes it, and is again a sign of the Order\'s corruption. Is it n ungrateful to not help a woman who helped their own? Yes. Is it stupidity to make the plot work? No.
----
23: The point is the only way they can be absolutely sure Anakin does not end up in the hands of the Sith, is by putting a Jedi next to him (the fact that it instead backfired because the Sith in question is Palpatine is irrelevant to the point). Choosing Obi-Wan be this Jedi \'\'is\'\' stupid, I never argued that. However choosing to train Anakin by itself is not. It is a risk, that they must take, because the alternatives present an even bigger risk. By training Anakin they at least give a token chance for things to turn out differently from what they fear.
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