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Discussion History Horrible / LiveActionFilmsGToM

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[003] rva98014 Current Version

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I don't think we're that far off in our viewpoints. I think we're perhaps differing in how we interpret the first scene.

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I don\'t think we\'re that far off in our viewpoints. I think we\'re perhaps differing in how we interpret the first scene.

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I'm viewing it as a national defense issue. The Executive Order was signed and the Department of Defense in conjunction with Damage Control realized there were tons of alien tech lying scattered everywhere and that local municipalities were contracting with civilian salvage companies to start cleaning up and the government needed to pull in the reins tight and fast.

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I\'m viewing it as a national defense issue. The Executive Order was signed and the Department of Defense in conjunction with Damage Control realized there were tons of alien tech lying scattered everywhere and that local municipalities were contracting with civilian salvage companies to start cleaning up and the government needed to pull in the reins tight and fast.

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Hence the team that Toomes encountered. Their orders were essentially to secure the site. They didn't care about concepts like

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Hence the team that Toomes encountered. Their orders were essentially to secure the site. They didn\'t care about concepts like \"eminent domain\", \"legal contracts\" or \"offerings of compensation\". They simply wanted Toomes out of the area. However, that doesn\'t mean there weren\'t avenues of compensation open to Toomes, just that the team he encountered didn\'t care one bit about how Toomes felt... hence the JerkAss and his \"next time\" remark.

After this opening scene, the story picks up 8 years later and Toomes is still running guns. After 8 years of \"business is good\" the fact that he may have been uncompensated seems to carry less weight as a villain\'s motivation since over that time he likely has made back his initial contract and more.

However, being insulted, being treated as if your concerns, your livelihood, your family are irrelevant. Now that\'s more the meat of a villainous FaceHeelTurn. To me, whether he was compensated or not, ultimately seems a weak fueling of his motivation.

Then there are trope examples like CreateYourOwnVillian that focus the justification almost exclusively on Tony stealing Toomes\' contract leaving him bankrupt as the reason he became the Vulture. I see the Vulture as one of the best MCU villains in a while and it disappoints me to see the tropes on this page loaded toward petty revenge over money as his primary motivation toward villainy .

Many examples can be cleaned up with simply wording changes like \"potentially bankrupting\" and mentioning that he was not just screwed financially but screwed as a person and provider for his family. This is why I opened this discussion point in the first place.

Discussion History Horrible / LiveActionFilmsGToM