[005]
KingZeal
Current Version
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Again, you're just proving my point. In the Kai dub, Goku didn't call Frieza trying to destroy the planet cowardly. He called Frieza cowardly '''for not being willing to kill himself in the blast'''. Once again, Goku did not call him cowardly for simply trying to win. He called him a coward for not going all the way.
to:
Again, you\'re just proving my point. In the Kai dub, Goku didn\'t call Frieza trying to destroy the planet cowardly. He called Frieza cowardly \'\'\'for not being willing to kill himself in the blast\'\'\'. Once again, Goku did not call him cowardly for simply trying to win. He called him a coward for not going all the way.
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If you recall, what you said was:
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If you recall, what you said was: \"[Goku] called Frieza trying to blow up the planet since he can survive in space a coward\'s move\", which even you have now proven is false. Goku did not call Frieza a coward for the reasons stated.
The point that I, Tobias and Larkmarn are trying to get across is that it is flat out FALSE that Goku believes \"anything goes\" in a fight. Time and time again, he has proven that he \'\'does not\'\' believe that. Goku doesn\'t use poison, he doesn\'t sneak attack an opponent who don\'t know he intends to fight them [[note]]No, him distracting Frieza and hitting him from behind doesn\'t count. I said he doesn\'t sneak up on opponents who don\'t know he intends to fight them. Frieza knew that they were fighting, and he made a conscious effort to distract Frieza[[/note]], and later in the series, he foregoes weapons like his staff and even help from teammates. True, early on in the series, Goku used more methods to win, but as he perfected his martial arts abilities, he gradually shed this. We\'ve seen MANY cases of this throughout the series and extended into \'\'Super\'\'. It\'s self-evident, since we see it happen.
So that means, despite being willing to compromise \'\'some\'\' fair play in a fight, Goku still has rules of some kind. And furthermore, he seems to develop MORE rules as he gets older and becomes a more capable martial artist. Case in point with his tail: he once thought exploiting it was unfair, but after he learned how to overcome such a weakness, he used it himself (although still finding it a rather cheap trick). So again, Goku has a weird mix of finding SOME tactics unfair but others perfectly fine. So his pragmatism has a line drawn somewhere.
The reason I brought up ValuesDissonance is to provide some context for WHERE that line is. And it seems to be this: \"Exploiting a mortal weakness that can\'t be overcome through training or effort is unfair and cheap--I\'ll avoid using that if I can. But if some technique or training comes along to overcome such a weakness, then it\'s my \'\'opponent\'s\'\' fault if they still lose.\"
If that still isn\'t good enough for you, then I have nothing else to say. From here on, I\'ll defer to Larkmarn and Tobias as mediators in our disagreement.
The point that I, Tobias and Larkmarn are trying to get across is that it is flat out FALSE that Goku believes \"anything goes\" in a fight. Time and time again, he has proven that he \'\'does not\'\' believe that. Goku doesn\'t use poison, he doesn\'t sneak attack an opponent who don\'t know he intends to fight them [[note]]No, him distracting Frieza and hitting him from behind doesn\'t count. I said he doesn\'t sneak up on opponents who don\'t know he intends to fight them. Frieza knew that they were fighting, and he made a conscious effort to distract Frieza[[/note]], and later in the series, he foregoes weapons like his staff and even help from teammates. True, early on in the series, Goku used more methods to win, but as he perfected his martial arts abilities, he gradually shed this. We\'ve seen MANY cases of this throughout the series and extended into \'\'Super\'\'. It\'s self-evident, since we see it happen.
So that means, despite being willing to compromise \'\'some\'\' fair play in a fight, Goku still has rules of some kind. And furthermore, he seems to develop MORE rules as he gets older and becomes a more capable martial artist. Case in point with his tail: he once thought exploiting it was unfair, but after he learned how to overcome such a weakness, he used it himself (although still finding it a rather cheap trick). So again, Goku has a weird mix of finding SOME tactics unfair but others perfectly fine. So his pragmatism has a line drawn somewhere.
The reason I brought up ValuesDissonance is to provide some context for WHERE that line is. And it seems to be this: \"Exploiting a mortal weakness that can\'t be overcome through training or effort is unfair and cheap--I\'ll avoid using that if I can. But if some technique or training comes along to overcome such a weakness, then it\'s my \'\'opponent\'s\'\' fault if they still lose.\"
If that still isn\'t good enough for you, then I have nothing else to say. From here on, I\'ll defer to Larkmarn and Tobias as mediators in our disagreement.
