The Touhou Original Character Compendium

Definitley Tenshou.

Also, you need to edit the # of "^" at the top of your post.

edited 3rd Oct '10 12:19:22 PM by XionGaTaosenai

I make video games! Or plan to, anyway.

I definately disagree with parts of Xion's posts.

First off, this seems to be talking about characters themselves, rather than summaries, which is what I got we were discussing. And for summaries, in my opinion at least, it shows a bit of a misunderstanding on how they work effectively. Of course, I'm pretty dumb about these things, but that's what I think. Backstory still falls into Plot, so it's interchangable with Personality and Technicality.

I also disagree with this segment: "I guess as a rule of thumb, ask yourself, "If my character had absolutely no backstory, would it still be an interesting character?""

It's too rigid and narrow in it's presumption, because it simply is not compatible with all characters, even Touhou ones(Suika, Yuyuko, Byakuren, Actually most of the UFO cast, Mokou and maybe even Koishi are all examples of characters that mess with this rule). Every character, little as it is, has backstory, with the exception of a few Stage 1 bosses. I think a better question might be about if the backstory can enhance the personality. Everything has to work with each other.

In terms of summaries, that statement is mostly irrelevent IMHO, but continuing on this thing that I don't know what I'm doing...

"In a similar way, backstories make a character rigid and well-defined, which is great for most other kinds of fiction, but those things in and of themselves make a toon less malleable, which is bad for a Touhou character."

Only if done badly. If done well, it works much like Byakuren or Suika or Yuyuko. The backstory is equal important to the personality and adds depth to shallowness.

If you don't mind, I'm going to go on a small tangent on summaries here...

All summaries can be defined under one of four branches: Personality(Which is exactly what it says on the tin), Plot(Including game plot and backstory), Technicality(Including Meaningful Names, good Theme Names, research into youkai types and so on) and a blend of any of them.

Inherently, all the branches are interchangable, depending on the character. However, generally speaking, one branch must be focused on. If you try to do everything at once, you'll fail. Aside from that, as we've seen, what type you try to focus on doesn't really matter!

To use examples from this topic...

"Kagamichi Glace

A youkai of reflection. Specifically, she is a Ungaikyo: a tsukumogami of mirrors. She fights with a long, oval mirror, and can use it to reflect some attacks or lash out at opponent's with her reflection...or their own. She's a bit arrogant, which has caused her some problems. Her theme song is "The Glass House on Eternity's Edge." "

Kagamichi is almost entirely Technicality. There's only one actually sentence about her personality or plot and it's a short one, even though I had a very large backstory in mind and quite a bit of personality! It also won. It gives a sense of Touhouness and allows the imagination to run wild, in addition to showing I've done research on the subject. This, in turn, makes the character interesting, and more importantly generates interest.

All summaries have goals twofold: Summarize your character and generate interest for your character. Even if you summarize your character greatly, if you do it in a way that fails to generate interest then they will not be voted for.

"Kusari Omoikiru

A youkai who materialized from a discarded kusarigama, being a weapon youkai you'd imagine that he would be more versed in the arts of combat, but unfortunately he was a mere peasants tool, made from shoddy metals he was quickly relegated back to his original purpose of harvest after his owner decided being a ninja wasn't practical, nor would killing his neighbors be either, humorlessly being stabbed by his neighbor's wife soon after leading to a fall into disrepair. During his early years he was unfortunate enough to meet one of the Four Devas, and after being pummeled and lectured on the tales of Yuugi the Strong and Suika, he subsequently took the lesson to heart not knowing Defeat Equals Friendship, leading to him avoiding the women of Gensokyo in fear, carrying a copy of the P Mi SS as a refernece on how not to incite the wrath of Gensokyo's mightiest. While preferring to retreat he can create a giant kama 4 times Komachi's own scythe, being a means of intimidation though as it has volume over density and will disperse on contact. "

Kusari is a great shower that plot can be personality. A large part of his profile is dedicated to how he got here and what lead him to his current actions, but it gives you a great "feel" for him and allows you to think of what he might do without going into much length at all about his personality. Note that he largely sacrificed the Technicality principle to talk about Plot with a dash of Personality. At the same time, he leaves enough open for you to speculate on in your mind, and thus create interest in the character. Such as how he would do the avoidance and, of course, if he would write/append his/other P Mi SS.

"Natsune Tsugunai:

A kitsune with the power to lead others astray, a power she's not satisfied with. She is both patient and cunning, as well as excessively impulsive, finding a certain pleasure in playing elaborate mind games with people. In battle, she can (and often does) appear to have any power she wishes to the impressionable, but in truth, little of her power lies past illusions. "

And this is a prime example of Personality, with some plot roots mixed in. Note the main descriptor being her cunning, excessively impulsive nature and pleasure in mind games. Her first sentence, while serving as a somewhat nessecary descriptor of what you are, is mainly personality based to show her displeasure at her powers: With a good element of plot in stealth, allowing you to wander and wonder what she's going to do in her dissatisfaction. Even her last part, while describing her power, gives a vague sense of plot and personality, especially with the line "but in truth, little of her power lies past illusions".

And, of course, all three entries won. You'll find these common elements of focus in every character who has won or gotten a vote in this contest. That's just how it roll.

Anyway, I've rambled for too long on that...

"About Kusari & Co.: perhaps, but the backstory and personality aren't all that connected, and the personalities aren't all that concrete, just quirk-laden.

Kusari: Coward who runs away from everyone. Annotates P Mi SS. You could take that a lot of ways.

Tenshou: Obsessed with manliness and justice. Worships Pokemon. Similar Story. "

Similar story is completely wrong, unless you take the "master died, object left behind" as similar, but given the type of youkai, it's similar for somewhat of a reason, and the differences between how they died and who their owner's were causes more than a needed differential.

To me, at least, the backstory and personality are connected: Tenshou was born of the sword of an old, honorable(presumably), MAAAANLY Samurai. And so, that's what he was shaped and tempered by, though he lacks the guidance he may of had when he was said samurai's weapons, which leads to the "little knowledge" and P*kemon part. One could construct that Kusari's is somewhat of a similar case, but in a different order: His owner looked brave(Kusari's giant kama), but was much more of a thinker and thought the ninjaing impractical(Kusari is a coward who doesn't think fighting would work), who humorlessly died a painful death(Which is exactly what Kusari seems to fear could happen to him). It's connected, just subtle.

They are somewhat quirk-laden, from what I see, but that's not really a bad thing...their personalities seem concrete to me, or at least Kusari since I don't have enough to go on for Tenshou.

"And by the way, just before the conversation starts, which do you like better, Kusari or Tenshou? "

Kusari, because I know more about him, while I only have a summary and quote on Tenshou. And some dialogue from Kusari's discussion.

"Actually... did we even really tell anyone that that thread existed? Maybe the thread will be more sucessful if we spread the word a bit more. "

I never heard of it, sooo...

"For characters in other fiction, backstories are important. For Touhou characters, making sure that the backstories are not important is important. "

Wrong. Just...no. Backstory takes the same importance as personality and technicality, it's just often somewhat more subtle in Touhou. If all you have is an unimportant backstory, then it might not hurt you, but it gives you one less avenue to go down, one less aisle of depth to use and one less way to gather a vote. Not to mention most winning characters have had a somewhat pretty defined backstory + plot...

Wow, I have wrote way too much on this! It's like I think I have a fucking clue what I'm doing. Which is a laugh, 'cause I obviously don't. Anyway, I THINK that's all for now...

Profile might not be up today, but I'll try to get it done today or sometime early/mid tomorrow, alright guys?

And so we observe the exotic teal deer.

By which I mean I'm vaguely amused that in a debate over what makes an effective summary effective, it doesn't seem like either of you could simply summarize your points.

Also, I like both your dudes, WORLD. Though Tenshou seems like he could be more favorite than Kusari once he gets his writeup.

edited 3rd Oct '10 3:41:03 PM by DrPravd

"People are calling me stupid on the internet."

Crikey, look at that deer...

First off, when I said "similar story" about Tenshou, I meant how they can both be taken in many directions with their personalities, not that their backstories are similar.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that good Touhou characters are all about basic frameworks and broad strokes. While structurally sound characterizations are important for characters in other fiction, to make personalities we can identify with better, Touhou characters need plenty of gaps for the fandom to fill in as they please.

I wasn't saying that Touhou characters should have no backstories, or that they should have irrelevant backstories. I was saying that Touhou characters, more than any other characters in fiction, need to be able to leave their pasts in the past. Again, look at Yuyuko. If she was driven by her backstory, she would be defined by Angst over her terrible power, and seeking to atone for the act of having it. But, while shades of the latter come up in her story in PCB, she pretty much has left her life & death behind, especially in later games.

WORLD Tree is someone who does backstories right. Kusari & Tenshou have detailed backstories, that have influenced them strongly as people, but they are not very driven by it, and their current & future adventures are independent of their past adventures.

I wasn't saying "make no backstory", I was saying, "consider if there was no backstory." I italicised that "if" for a reason.

But I guess I should rephrase myself. I guess the question you should ask yourself is... "Could my character work in a 4koma/newspaper comic?" This doesn't mean "be silly". It means "make your toons so that they can work in whatever kind of story you or anyone else could put them in, regardless of wether it is silly or serious, regardless of if it is has an intricate continuity or if it has Negative Continuity."

Also yes, the moment I posted that text-block, this stopped being about summaries and started being about toons as a whole. The summary debate was meant to be seguayed into that all along. Sorry I wasn't clearer about that.

edited 3rd Oct '10 5:14:44 PM by XionGaTaosenai

I make video games! Or plan to, anyway.

I think the rephrased question is much better and makes sense. I can agree with that one, since generally even if a Touhou character fits a little better in one way, it will inevitably be put in...just about any situation. So too narrow and that can cause problems.

"Also yes, the moment I posted that text-block, this stopped being about summaries and started being about toons as a whole. The summary debate was meant to be seguayed into that all along. Sorry I wasn't clearer about that. "

Yeah, I mostly only talk about summary stuff because I honestly don't consider myself good enough for any actual character advice. XP Sorry if I came off as rude.

On the other hand, a few Touhou characters are informed by their origins in their initial appearance. Tenshi is doing what she's doing because of her origin story, for instance.

I would add that even if your character is driven by their origin, it's good to make it possible to free them of it over the course of a story/game.

I suppose I'll offer my twopence, while we're waiting for the profile to go up.

I guess the most basic thing that we're all aiming for is a character that adds something to the Touhouverse (if nothing else, at least one more character to add to the party), while at the same time, keeping enough Original Flavor that they don't feel out of place. Though we all seem to have varying opinions on how to achieve that.

My opinion on backstories is that they can be the basis of a character... in that they provide a seed from which the character can be developed. Andro, for a recent example. Admittedly, part of my vote was because I've always wanted to explore the personality of a character with an artificial brain. What my vote represented was, "That's an interesting place to start. Now show me where you're going with it".

I suppose (and this is just my guess, I could be wrong) what makes the Touhouverse what it is is that a character's baseline personality changes little, if at all. Attitudes toward a character might change, or they might agree to be a little less disagreeable after the local shrine maiden beats them up at the end of a game, but they more or less stay who they are. A rigid backstory doesn't change this, it's a backstory. It's in the past. It might be really interesting to see how they developed, but what's important is who they are now.

I guess this is part of why I was so reluctant to give Nozomi  ^*

her happy ending. It would take away what made her Nozomi in the first place. She got her happy ending, in the end, but in the process she became a totally different character. A satisfying story, and one which I'm proud to have crafted, but it feels a little out of place in Gensokyo. (On that note, I've half a mind to enter "Nozomi, Crane Spirit of Hope" in the next round.)

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...

Gee, it brings a tear to my eye that everyone likes my writing.

...

Especially for a guy like me without an avatar.

edited 3rd Oct '10 6:33:56 PM by WORLDTree

Was busy all day. Profile about 50% done. Haven't slept yet. 9 AM.

Should finish after I get just a little sleep. Will try not to take too long.

Signed, Vince Offer.

Title: The Homely Homeless Priestess

Name: Natsumi Kyushu

Name Etomolgy: The earliest archaelogical evidence of the Yayoi is found in northern Kyushu, corrosponding Yamako and Natsumi's last names. Natsumi is both a Japanese name and a place in Japan. It would use the kanji for it to mean, using only internest and absolutely no actual knowledge of names here, "summer, life", life fitting with the idea of culture.

• Theme Song: The Uncultured Priestess of Culture
• Stage Music: See Right Through Me ~ Worthless Conversation
• Pre-Boss Music: None, shooting game boss.
• Quote: "Sorry, but I'm required to ask all priestess to please leave their motherfuckin' miracles at the door."

Yamako's scrappy priestess and the Stage 5 boss. She doesn't reappear in Stage 6 as a midboss or anything.

Natsumi has grown up a homeless street lover for as long as she can remember and doesn't let it get her down. Even though she's uneducated, she's extremely street smart and savvy with people.

She was forcibly recruited by Yamako, blah blah, you've heard this, I'm repeating, blah. She spreads the word of Yamako, which kickstarts the plot, and maintains the shrine where she and Yamako dwell. The shrine is more like a very small, shoddily built wooden structure, but it's home all the same.

She honestly doesn't have much of a plot or backstory her own. Got something to come up with? Feel free to help here!

Hmmm...as for personality?

A very idealistic person. She might come off as stupid because she hasn't been educated, but she's capable of surprising amounts of emotional insight and inventive solutions. She takes a bright and cheery, idealistic approach to life, even when it becomes dissonant when compared with her subject or with whatever words she is actually saying.

To Natsumi, determination and willpower is practically a core belief. Somebody who has already given up will never achieve what they want, so one should not give up. Retreat, perhaps, but always return another day. This scrappy nature and inventive thought has gotten her through life. This directly ties into her power when she becomes Yamako's priestess.

One could say Natsumi is like a foil to Yamako: Both are determined, but one is very good with specifics and often fumbles with people, while the other is uneducated but with a street presence.

Natsumi is also very greateful for the things Yamako provides her. While she doesn't worship the ground she walks on, she trusts her goddess very much.

I get the feeling I'm forgetting something, but given how long this is, I'm sure it conveys the message I wished to send!

As for how she looks, her appearance...

Her hair is black and long, but mostly unstyled in any way. The most care she takes to it after becoming Yamako's priestess is make sure it's brushed out and somewhat straight. Her eyes are also black.

Her regular outfit consists of a modified white curtain and bed sheet, which was cut and re-sewn into her priestess outfit. Her priestess outfit bares both armpit and her midsection, and you can see sewn on stitch-like patterns from her hand-craft. Aside from that, it's somewhat standard fare. After the game, she sews on some light blue fabric on the end of her sleeves, including a small pattern of zig-zagging blue lines.

Even her skirt is made from this material, although her skirt is mostly unadorned. It does, however, have a little stitch-slug design on it. She likes to wear sandals, although she isn't good with Geta, and has been considering putting in some kind of knife feature inside her gohei, but she can't figure how to conceal it well enough.

Spellcards:

• 'Stalking of the Bell': Natsumi sends out a variable(1 on Easy/Normal, 2 on Hard, 3 Insanity) number of lasers out. These lasers do not leave the screen and actively track the player, nessecitating constant movement. Afterwards, she fires off a somewhat standard pattern, made not dense enough that you don't need to stream. Laser dissappears at the end of the Spellcard. She won't try to fire more lasers or add more after the initial, unless the laser somehow dissappears(bomb).
• Trope Sign 'Determinator': A timeout card that lasts 130 seconds. It starts out with an effective pattern power of about a Stage 1 boss. Every 10 seconds, something is added or changed about the pattern. At about 30 or 40 seconds, the pattern reaches it's apex, reaching an effective pattern power of a low level EX Boss. The hardest spellcard in the game, aside from the Extra Stage. Determination, indeed.

Misc:

• Yes, Trope Sign. Really.
• Motherfucking miracles, how do they work?
• mIrAcLeS.
• Her stage theme is a reference to a song.

—-

Almost noon. No sleep, though I finished this about half an hour a go. Too tired to keep talking.

May edit more later?

Hmmm, interesting does she have some kind of rivalry with Sanae? She seems like a good old-fashioned kind of spunky character, for some odd reason her disposition reminds me of Suika, she may not always know what she's doing but her hearts in the right place. Lastly some questions, what are her sizes, what are her favorite foods, and are there any "benefits" to being Yamako's "priestess"?

Creating a character for her?

Well, since she's a street rat, she probably had to learn reading manually, or perhaps some kind teacher gave her a few lessons many years ago, a good deed that she'll never forget.

She's a very pragmatic sort due to her tough life, and has less difficulty making harsh decisions than most.

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!

^^ I don't know how to size. I'd say she's about average in things like height, a little thin and with a below average, but not Pettanko level, bust size.

Her favorite food, I like to think, is some sort of sandwich. I'm not entirely sure which one, though. I'm thinking maybe some kind of open faced sandwich, or maybe even just all open sandwiches. Shrug.

As for benefits...uh...

Well, for one, I'd imagine Yamako provides some goods for Natsumi, like an increase in basic essentials, and the donation box, if anyone ever uses it(It doesn't seem like anyone ever actually donates in Touhou, huh!) is a small income source. She would also be able to call upon Yamako's power for help, which would most likely manifest in some kind of healing aspect(Since Yamako presides over health, partly). Her sheer determination and will also can cause some amazing danmaku, possibly because of Yamako's connectioness.

I wouldn't be surprised to see her and Sanae have a minor rivalry, especially given Sanae's plot being canon for this game and all.

^ That sounds about right. I can only imagine that if one left the teacher part in, but somewhat unexplained, a somewhat sizable amount of fanwork with Keine would occur. Or perhaps not, but shrug.

Wait, I just realized: how is Ruki able to enter and win this poll when he was in the last poll and won?

edited 7th Oct '10 10:21:10 AM by Chagen46

"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith

Because the new rule was only made up during the middle of this round, and it wouldn't have been fair to suddenly disqualify those that had already entered before the rule was made. So it all works out.

edited 7th Oct '10 10:28:01 AM by KylerThatch

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...

What he said.

You guys probably don't know it, but you just averted what could of been a huge mess/fight.

"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith

Hah, interesting thread. Gotta an idea for OC to enter next time the polls come up.

...now I'm imagining Natsumi and Reimu sitting around staring at their respective donation boxes and complaining about the lack of donations they receive, while Sanae's is overflowing with donations. I have no clue why I picture Sanae actually getting donations.... maybe something to do with a certain loli god.

edited 7th Oct '10 5:37:36 PM by FlameHaze17

And it says all the more because people have to climb youkai mountain to visit her shrine!

Maybe the residents get a cut of the profit so they leave shrine-goers alone?

Being the priestess of the goddess of health, I imagine there's going to be some fanart of Natsumi with a little extra weight on her. Yes, with complete disregard for canon.

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...

Well assuming this goes beyond TV Tropes...

Of course, a little extra weight usually means a larger chest. Though that much is obvious.

I make video games! Or plan to, anyway.

Our current fanart count is at 1...

Wouldn't it be fan-fanart? After all, it's fanart of an OC...and....god damn, this is gonna become some recursive mind-screw shit.

Also, Xion, why did you never respond to my reply to your PM?

edited 7th Oct '10 7:03:52 PM by Chagen46

"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith