Shin Megami Tensei Series

Ronaldo's worse

Ronaldo doesn't want to kill your sweet, frail grandmother for being weak.

Ronaldo's plan seems perfectly reasonable to me, yet the character opposed to it treat it like it's as bad as SJ Law. This baffles me.

People with Yamato's worldview revolt me. Extreme individualism in general is a blight on society.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Mar 13th 2019 at 4:30:55 AM

It always rubbed me off how Devil Survivor 2 tries to push Yamato as the "More Reasonable"-choice, if that is the right way of saying it.

Edited by dood9780 on Mar 13th 2019 at 2:35:24 AM

Daisuke is the most reasonable, but Yamato and Ronaldo are portrayed as equally bad when Yamato is clearly worse.

So just have to skip over this little discussion until I beat the game but does anybody know when you get access to the Compendium? I just beat the thugs with Makoto and am off to see Yamato. I don't want to fuse anything away that I 'll miss.

Edited by Nikkolas on Mar 13th 2019 at 2:39:17 AM

You get the Compendium on Day 3/Tuesday IIRC, but I forget exactly when you get it on that day.

Edited by CybranGeneralSturm on Mar 13th 2019 at 2:40:58 AM

From what I know about your personal philosophy, Nik, you'll despise Yamato.

As I understand, Yamato comes off as better because of Ronaldo's Revenge Before Reason tendencies.

I can't say more because Nik is going in blind, and even what I just said is a bit too much.

Yamato causes far more damage to the greater whole, though, despite Ronaldo's individual-scale dickishness.

Been a while, but didn't Yamato at least have a legitimate plan?

Yeah, I'll give Ronaldo's detractors this - he spends most of his time undermining the only people who actually know how to solve the crisis (and for a pretty selfish reason, we learn later on). His final plan is way better though; it's basically identical to SJR Law+, which for reasons I'm not entirely sure of got a way better fan reception.

Because Zelenin's prettier than Ronaldo is.

Yamato doesn't kill grandma for being weak. He just sighs and gives her a job shell be good at...then she die in a stupidly easily avoidable way that makes Yamato just groan in Meritocracy.

The people his system is specifically designed to cull are dumb people who got into positions because of Nepotism and money, not due to skills or competence. He's pretty much the bane of every political party that uses connections, money, etc. to get where they are, because those people he actively loathes.

Does seem to me like everyone everywhere hates Ronaldo. I wonder which of the voices saying DEVIL SURVIVOR 2 at the start is his. I doubt it's the one who voiced Suzaku in Yu Yu Hakusho/Lyon in Fairy Tail but maybe.

But yeah, lots of love for DS 1 Law but hate for DS 2 Law. Somebody pointed out the irony of the dark and grungy red game having an awesome Law and the more bright and happy blue game being great at Chaos.

Also I'm getting really sick of the double standard about killing in these games. It's okay to wipe out scores of demons, clearly sapient beings, but keisuke was a monster for killing some thugs who beat an old lady to death after she offered them food. It's monstrous to kill people in self-defense when they choose to try and murder you but it's a-okay to kill demons who have been beaten up and enslaved to work for those murderers.

Edited by Nikkolas on Mar 13th 2019 at 5:28:05 AM

In terms of what actually happens to the world overall, DeSu2 Law is, I'd say, the best ending, but Ronaldo's more negative traits turn off a lot of people. In particular there's this one thing he can do in the late-game (you can prevent it) that many say puts him damn close to the Moral Event Horizon, if not over it.

That certain scene is specially jarring if you maxed out Ronaldo's Relationship Values, like... Couldn't they just make it so that scene just doesn't happen if he is maxed out?

Though I can't say I feel all that bad for Makoto there. She's a nice person, but nice is different than good; if she's willing to put her life on the line for a murderous social darwinist, well, she reaps what she sows. If Ronaldo had spared her, Yamato probably would've killed her himself for losing.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Mar 13th 2019 at 7:39:07 AM

Hhmmmmm... Fair point.

Considering its given her a life after her dreams were crushed underfoot by her injuries of course she'll be loyal. She even thinks, logically it makes sense, even if morally is a different story for her. Not to mention J Ps is the only thing keeping any form of fighting back and Ronaldos group only worsens the situation with the repeated assaults, making the demon assaults and alien attacks easily. Not to mention most J Ps don't even know what Yamatos ultimate goal is and were just trying to prevent the end of the world, yet were callously butchered by Ronaldo and his thugs.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Mar 13th 2019 at 5:51:25 AM

You get an option to protect defenseless demons in a certain mission in De Su, and I'm not sure if defeated COMP demon actually die.

Well, yours definitely don't. Demons seem to exist in this weird state of between dead and alive anyway, and the copies of the same demon seem to actually share consciousness. Like, when you fuse them, the demons actually say something like "Oh well, see you later".

I do prefer Yamato to Ronaldo for the reasons already outlined so far.

That being said, once he's gets past his issues, Ronaldo is pretty cool, as Triangulum shows.

And even before that, he does value the well being of the people. (Spoiler: don't read this Nik) When that Septentrione shows up after the party beats him, he prioritizes fighting it and protecting the people over his grudges.

He also catches on to the fact that the MC met Dera-Deka in one of the earlier timelines almost immediately in the Triangulum arc when the latter is brought up.

When his head is straight, he's a Justice Juggernaut.

With exception to his plan, he was pretty cool. Honestly, the the Tri arc rescued everyone except Airi for me though I have issues with Miyako.

I'll admit that I kind of like Ronaldo a little more than Yamato. I always felt that if I was in the same situation as the characters, I could rely on Ronaldo looking out for me.

Still, I really like both characters.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Sep 16th 2019 at 1:40:05 AM