World Of Warcraft

I think I'm the only person left on the Internet who likes Shadowlands. The story is decent, although not nearly as emotionally engaging as the one in Battle for Azeroth. The Night Fae campaign is the peak, with the Ysera and Elune cutscenes. Sylvanas' arc is also great — I'll probably have to carve that in my tombstone after I get eviscerated for saying it, but whatever. I generally agree that the Jailer could have used more setup and backstory, but it's not a deal breaker.

I'm more concerned that Dragonflight will lack a compelling through-line. Right now there's no hint of what we're going to be fighting against in the end.

Edited by Fighteer on May 26th 2022 at 10:20:24 AM

The leaks say Murozond.

Honestly, I think the Venthyr campaign was the most fun I had with this expac. I just like their vibe and the cast.

If nothing else, Shadowlands has great art direction.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 26th 2022 at 11:03:59 AM

Murozond? That's quite the blast from the past. More Infinite Dragonflight shenanigans? More Caverns of Time dungeons?

Yeah the same leak that predicted Dragonflight claimed that this expac will reveal how Murozond became evil.

Sounds like a fun idea, he has crazy time master powers, and you can do a lot with that, maybe bust out alternate versions of the factions leaders for us to fight like War crimes or more infinite dragon flight time travel dungeons.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 26th 2022 at 11:07:46 AM

I think Dragonflight will be a less antagonist-driven expansion then is typical and that's fine.

It can just be about the restoration of the Dragons, and potentially Azeroth as a whole, with the antagonists serving more as obstacles to that restoration than what is actually driving the plot.

That being said, I think Galakrond is a reasonably safe bet. We know that his children will be our primary foes in the first tier of the expansion, so that could quite naturally lead to us clashing with a risen Galakrond by the end of the expansion.

As for Murozond, I do expect we'll see Nozdormu's decent into madness featured in this expansion regardless of how it's ultimately presented.

I generally enjoy the stories where we explore Azeroth and it's culture as well as the exotic locations in the planet.

I personally didn't enjoy the faction war storyline because neither faction could actually commit to the war, and preferred the Old God part of the storyline, but Zandalari and Kul Tiras were some of the most fun questing experiences I had with this game.

So the premise of Dragonflight sounds great. Blizzard can bust out the usual Big Bad raid boss later, Mists of Pandaria didn't have a general Big Bad till later on.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 26th 2022 at 11:15:23 AM

I can't talk about Shadowlands gameplay, but for all the weakness of The Jailer as a villain I do think it's a compelling story, far better than Warlords or Cataclysm.

Of course asking two major patches to do the work of three means that never level of quality is ever going to be enough.

Kinda off-topic: The next guild-build challenge for the Tabletop Crafters' Guild is themed around floating miniature terrain, so I'm thinking of building something based on the floating islands in Outland. I'm a bit torn on whether to make it look like the floating islands in Nagrand, or to just copy the look of Hellfire Peninsula in Warcraft 3, with huge mushrooms as well. Remind me, is there floating terrain in the other zones as well?

"ylvanas' arc is also great — I'll probably have to carve that in my tombstone after I get eviscerated for saying it, but whatever. I generally agree that the Jailer could have used more setup and backstory, but it's not a deal breaker."

Sylvanas arc as shadowland or sylvanas arc as whole? because those two are different beast here

Umm... both? She's a very complex character with a very long story, and one that has been subject to a few retcons over the years, but overall I find her quite compelling.

I mean, I said because arc often have low and downs, I dislike the way she was writen in Bf A and made as problem with the horde when they off vol jin in order to happen but the resolution isnt that back in shadowland(granted, that most of her motivation is in a novel release at the end of the damn thing is bad).

Yeah I think most Sylvanas lovers and haters can agree that this is the best possible way to resolve her divisive arc.

Granted, the novel implies she'll be back soon and Anduin will help her do weeklies in the Maw.

TBH, I still prefer her from the TBC to Legion days, I liked her better as the mysterious, ruthless, and tragic character who walked the line between anti-hero and anti-villain.

On the topic of Shadowlands, honestly, the only WOW characters I enjoyed were Kael'thas and Uther.

Like there's something about them actually being dead, having to deal with the failures of their life, and moving on, that actually spoke to me. Especially in the expac about the afterlife.

Renethal was also cool, but he just sort of disappears after the Ventyr storyline is done.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 28th 2022 at 5:45:08 AM

Netherstorm has a lot of it.

I feel that Sylvanas is as gone as any character can be in a fantasy setting. Everyone can always be brought back, and even characters that are supposed to be perma-dead are only gone until a writer decides that bringing them back is worth the effort of coming up with a way to sidestep their apparent fate.

Sylvanas does have an in-built way to be brought back, but so did Illidan and we have yet to get the tiniest hint towards him coming back.

I'll be annoyed if she comes back in a way that cheapens her ending in Shadowlands certainly, but I'll save that annoyance for when and if that actually happens.

I mean, they could bring back arthas and yet they make it clear he is not coming back, sometimes you can make clear thing up like that.

I wonder if we finally see the redemption of the black dragonflight here.

Even Arthas's fate in Shadowlands is only permanent until a writer decides that it isn't and make up a way to sidestep it. Maybe his soul gets reconstituted despite everyone present believing it to be impossible, or time travel shenanigans brings back a version of Arthas, or someone recreates him in a way that isn't technically the same being but has all of his memories and personality.

Sure if it's done too often or casually it can cheapen the stakes, but one of the conceits of the fantasy genre is that anyone can come back regardless of how they exited.

As for the Black Dragonflight, I'd argue they had their redemption already in Wrathion aide in the fight against N'Zoth. However rebuilding the Black Dragonflight is another matter entirely.

Besides PC revives, how many times has a character been successfully revived? As in not turned into undead, but back to their body and good as new.

There have been several cases of rescuing important NPCs who've had something nasty happen to their souls, such as Thrall in Cataclysm or Jaina in Battle for Azeroth. There's Anduin's use of what can only be Mass Resurrection during the trailer for BfA, but it's not particularly clear whether the characters in question are dead or just wounded.

Lots of characters get raised as undead, of course, and some of those come back a bunch of times. There are many other immortal or quasi-immortal beings that get a glitzy Revolving Door Afterlife, such as the Burning Legion and the Wild Gods, but I don't think those count.

Of explicitly mortal characters that explicitly die permanently and then come back to life... I can't think of very many. There is an NPC in the Scarlet Crusade whose name I forget that the game makes a Running Gag out of players killing and then being resurrected offscreen. There is Kael'thas, who dies in Tempest Keep and then returns for the Magister's Terrace dungeon, although he's all messed up and it's not entirely clear whether he's alive or some sort of wacky half-undead thing.

Edited by Fighteer on May 28th 2022 at 11:29:30 AM

In Kael'thas's case, he definitely came back wrong since not only does he look messed up by the fel resurrection process but he's actively worshipful of Kil'jaeden and trying to harm his own people by using the Sunwell to bring his master to Azeroth. At least in Tempest Keep he still has the future of his people in mind despite what he's doing.

There's also that quest you get that's still in the game that reveals he technically survived the fight in Tempest Keep.

So barring undeath, death isn't cheap in the Warcraft verse. Major lore characters never revive unlike the Players and minor boss characters.

Ysera MIGHT come back to the land of the living, I have no idea how Ardenweald works except that it prepares nature spirits to reincarnate.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 28th 2022 at 12:15:38 PM

Kael thalas was more "I wast never dead" which is hilarious for the memetic "It was a set back" and the whole "How did you survive again?" moment. Kael thalas was one of their strongest chararter narrative speaking of warcraft so seen him again was good.

In the dialogue during the Night Fae campaign, we learn that the unique method of Ysera's rebirth at the hands of the Winter Queen has permanently bound her to Ardenweald. Although her life is saved, she can never again leave the Shadowlands. Blizzard might find a way to change that later, but it's meant as a lesson about the price of that kind of power, and it would be kind of cruel to let her break that rule when Ursoc was explicitly Killed Off for Real during the anima drought.

Demetrios: Thanks! Looking at the pictures I'm probably going to attempt to recreate the Warcraft 3 version of Hellfire Peninsula, because I like that charred red look. The image on the campaign menu◊ for the Blood Elves is really iconic for me.

Glad I could help.

Patch 9.2.5 has dropped and we have gotten a few story tidbits upon logging in and going to Oribos. Unfortunately I can't do them all right now, but it appears that Blizzard is addressing some of the gaps that have been left behind.

• Anduin meets Sylvanas in the Maw and says that he's having trouble separating the part of him that was Dominated from the part that is himself. He doesn't know if he can trust himself to use the Light again. Sylvanas leaves him with the question of whether he really believes in free will or not.
• Tyrande meets the Winter Queen once again in Ardenweald. The Queen says that Tyrande's choice of hope over vengeance has allowed the rift between her and her sister to be mended. She uses the new Tear of Elune along with the willing souls of Night Elves — now become wisps — to create a Seed that is implied to one day become a new World Tree. This Seed has the blessing of both Life and Death and as such will not be corrupted as others have. Ysera instructs Shandris in how to care for it, and says that while she is bound to Ardenweald, she may yet return to Azeroth some day.

There are also scenes with Taelia and Bolvar Fordragon and with Calia Menethil and the Forsaken that I have not seen yet. Tomorrow.

Edited by Fighteer on May 31st 2022 at 10:30:01 AM

At the conclusion of the Lordaeron storyline, all elves get Dark Ranger skin options, which is a weird choice for Night elves considering the Dark Rangers were traitors.