World Of Warcraft

Yeah this is where people start to see how bad Vanilla was... just wait till they get to raiding and flasks .

Or all those poor saps who rolled druid only to realize how hard it sucks to not have an out-of-combat rezz when the corpse run to BRD takes 15-20 minutes .

Or all those people who will have paladin/shaman loot in their Onyxia first kills.

Honestly, I know the raid finder has a bad rap, but I kinda actually wish you could use it for pre-Cata raids. Because as it is right now, really the only way you can really do a vanilla, Burning or Wrath raid before you outlevel them and can do them in your sleep is by asking one or more of your guildmates to carry you, because pretty much no one does them actively anymore unless they're grinding for pets and/or mounts.

Literally the only thing I remember being sort of better in the Vanilla Wo W days was the server communities and that is if you were lucky enough to get on a server that actively condemned and blacklisted any assholes.

I doubt that would truly be achievable now as the demographics are so different compared to how they where in Vanilla.

I only kind of hope Vanilla Wo W fails and breaks the nostalgia fanatics. Its really tiresome to hear people praise Vanilla Wo W so much when it had tons of issues.

Theory time again.

I've been thinking about Vol'jin's storyline and how thus far the story has kind of danced around telling us exactly what he's become. The speculation is of course that he's become a Loa, but Loa are a very broad concept and technically all we have are the following clues:

1. Something about the nature of his return makes it impossible for him to directly communicate with Bwomsamdi.

2. The Lich King describes him as "neither undead nor damned", which likely means he is a living being and does not qualify as being undead in any sense of the term.

3. Eyire describes him as being "no mere spirit" and "beyond her power to forge" which likely makes him at least a tier higher then her own Valkyrie.

4. There is some implication that he is gaining power over time.

My conclusion?

Vol'jin has become something that could potentially be described as a Loa, but specifically the Loa of Life, Bwomsamdi's antithesis. This potentially explains both why Bwomsamdi can't communicate with him, and why the master of the shades (clearly some sort of death entity) is so desperate to get Vol'jin back to being dead.

Now this is where it merges with Sylvanas's storyline. Both Bwomsamdi and the Lich King describe Sylvanas as a threat to the balance. What if, the "Hand of Valor"^note whose identity I will not speculate on here is attempting to balance the cosmic scales by adding a Loa of Life to the mix. Someone who could, for example, resolve the current Sylvanas storyline in part by ressurecting her.

Or if we don't want to go that far on the crazy train, I would say that Sylvanas's schemes likely only function if she can very accurately predict all possible outcomes of any given event. If she misjudges the nature of Vol'jin's return even a little, it could spell disaster for her.

That's...actually a pretty interesting theory, but if Sylvanas is restored to full life, who would lead the Forsaken in her place? It can't be Calia, as she'd likely have them all "defect" to the Alliance.

Thus far, all the development of Calia's story in game has been strictly on the Alliance side of things. So I prefer to look at Forsaken characters who have had a more active role on the Horde side of things.

If I have to name a name, I'd personally go with a restored Desolate Council with Lilian Voss as their Champion. Essentially she would be a figurehead/top enforcer who is also a sitting member of the council and thus not entirely lacking in real political power.

This kind of feeds into my more general idea that if Sylvanas stops being the leader of the Forsaken for any reason, the Forsaken need to go in a different direction instead of having another Banshee Queen.

If this leads to the idea of a Warchief itself going out of style...

Maybe the Horde will shift to a parliamentary democracy.

Disgusted, but not surprised

The big issue wit the idea of Calia defecting the Forsaken to the Alliance is the Alliance doesn't want them. Calia Menethil's name may not go far enough to heal those wounds. Calia may realize she has to keep them with the Horde.

Tide of War did prove though that without Sylvanas' influence, the Forsaken could recover their human lives, the entire reason the meeting didn't work out was Sylvanas sabotaging it because she realized they could slip out of her control, that's why she killed even the ones loyal to her so she could lie about it being something Alliance did.

Honestly I feel like that'd be the next step in the rebellion, have someone in a position of trust within the Forsaken tell how the meeting in Arathi really went and offer tangible proof of it, that'd be something that would cause the Forsaken to split on her.

Edited by NaraNumas on May 19th 2019 at 12:44:56 PM

If there's a chance of resurrection, then I think that the split of the Forsaken would be between those that want to return to being alive, who could go with Calia and take back Lordaeron for the Alliance, and those that want to stay undead for whatever reason, who would remain with the Horde.

And honestly, I think Sylvanas does not want to be resurrected, because that means she will live again the natural cycle of life and death and she most certainly doesn't want to face the latter.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.

I don't think the question wanting to be resurrected is all that important in regards to if she's going to be resurrected at the end of her current arc.

I've talked about the idea that the game Sylvanas is playing requires her to be able to predict all possible actions of her enemies with extreme accuracy. One miscalculation and it could all fall apart. The possibility that someone might try to resurrect her is potentially an action that she doesn't even consider.

Otherwise, it's hard to predict how such an event would impact the Forsaken as a whole since a lot depends on if it's a one-off event or something that can be replicated easily. In addition Horde/Alliance relations are very much an unknown. There is a nonzero chance that the faction barrier will be dismantled after Bf A and the Horde and Alliance will cease to exist in their current forms.

Edited by Falrinn on May 19th 2019 at 2:53:56 PM

I can't see that happening from a gameplay mechanic perspective. It's why my pet theory (Horde wins war but ousts Sylvanas in the process and doesn't destroy the Alliance) is predicated on the fact that the Alliance/Horde setup will remain intact, whatever else happens.

While on a mechanical level there's probably too much to untangle for the faction divide to be excised from the game entirely, I do think a possibility exists for the line to become a lot more permeable then it currently is.

Allowing people to communicate and group up regardless of faction, merge the LFD/LFR queues, Battlegrounds are nominally considered war games or just big arenas and use a robust mercenary mode to ensure queues stay balanced.

War Mode would likely have to be reworked significantly, but even if the Horde and Alliance are in a state of permanent peace there will always be groups that don't like each other and War Mode could be integrated into those conflicts. Perhaps we could have a new conflict every expansion where War Mode players take a side in.

Just had a thought about what else Vol'jin could be: When Azeroth was ordered by the Titans the element of spirit was infused to the nascent titan to nurture her.

Since Vol'jin's return lines up with Azeroth loosing a lot of her blood and one of the expedition quests mentioned the emergence of a new type of element born from Azerite, what if:

Voljin is a Spirit elemental, in fact he might be the quasi elemental lord of spirit.

Edited by Kiefen on May 20th 2019 at 11:32:38 AM

Vol'jin's ascension being tied to the wounding of Azeroth is an idea I've considered.

My only potential issue is that it's clear that weird stuff has been going on with his spirit since literally the moment of his death. Otherwise he likely would of already spoken with Bwomsamdi. It's possible that whatever entity advised him to appoint Sylvanas was holding his spirit in a place that was somehow permeable to the events triggered by Azeroth's wounding, but that feels like a stretch.

I think being linked to Azeroth's wounding makes sense with the timing. Remember we have two beings here, the one who told Vol'jin to appoint Sylvanas and the one who brought him back against the former's plans.

I mean, in the upcoming patch it's blatantly stated that we're basically playing right into N'Zoth's hands by powering up the Heart of Azeroth. Azshara uses it to shatter N'Zoth's prison, and Sylvanas is going to be there along with Anduin when that happens.

Unless there's a massive plot twist which shows Anduin as Evil All Along because Priests hurr durr, it's just going to be Sylvanas becoming a Lich Queen. Which, admittedly, wouldn't be too bad. More loot to be had.

As for factions - unlikely they'll vanish, but as some others here have posted, the faction barriers could become far more permeable.

Regarding Classic -

You can hear the nostalgia goggles crack so hard even Deathwing is wincing. Hope they enjoy having to slog through weapon proficiencies, lack of quest markers, no RDF, ammunition for ranged weapons, and so on and so forth.

"You think you know, but you don't." Blizzard's gonna throw that line back into the faces of those smug nostalgia-goggles-wearing crowd pretty damn hard.

I hold the secrets of the machine.

Even though I'm not personally inclined to play classic, I'm not cheering for it's demise either.

I'm fine with it existing as a museum piece where people can explore the game in as close to it's original form as is reasonably possible, and a place for the people who genuinely prefer classic gameplay to experience it for as long as they care to.

Sure there's a percentage of the classic community that are more than a little too snobby and could do well with getting knocked down a peg. But almost every possible interest has it's snobs, and I'm very rarely going to cheer for people to not have fun, and I don't loath Blizzard enough to want to see their endeavors crash and burn on principle.

I hate to say it, but considering that the Heart boss from the Emerald Nightmare and N'Zoth himself during the Crucible of Storms constantly talked about "the Boy King and his three lies"...

Yes, I'm sure those constantly-lying and truth-twisting Old Gods are telling the asbolute truth this time.

And even if they are, all Blizz has done is tell. They haven't shown a single instance of Anduin something anything less than snow-white pure.

Also if you ask me, they went incredibly heavy-handed with the 'boy-king' stuff. As soon as Ill'gynoth said those words, suddenly everyone in-game was calling him that.

Edited by Resileafs on May 21st 2019 at 12:11:22 PM

Well to be fair, it makes sense when Horde leaders like Lorthemar calls him that, since to them he hasn't done anything yet to prove that he's just as much of a king and warrior as Varian was.

Sure, but it's such a coincidence that this nickname comes out as soon as Ill'gynoth speaks it when no one ever refered to him as such before.

When you put it like that it honestly seems like a red herring.

or like blizzard cant write for shit and just likes screaming their plots in big honking letters.