Invader Zim

The most obvious indication is that - as notes - the movie takes the events of the first arc of the comics and then uses those events as set up for an entirely different story.

Though I wasn't talking about continuity, regardless.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 30th 2021 at 4:43:57 AM

I still don't see that as a reason for why both couldn't happen in the same universe, given continuity isn't that tight in this series.

I mean sure, but you didn't ask for proof that it could possibly happen in the same universe regardless, you asked for indication that they're not the same, and that fact is more definitive as the latter than the former because it's a literal decisive difference.

And, again, I wasn't talking about continuity in the first place anyway. I was talking about character writing. Regardless of whether one can finagle them maybe happening in the same continuity despite differences, the fact remains that the main comics writers had a certain take on the characters, the movie had a similar but ultimately different take on the characters, and the quarterlies take after the movie more than they take after the main comic.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 2nd 2021 at 7:56:59 AM

I know I'm repeating myself but it's honestly weird to me how the comics got so hyped as awesome and funny, the first arc feels like an excuse to make gross fat-shaming jokes at dib and I'm seriously baffled how some were so excited at the prospect of that being the movie's plot.

Like I'm sorry but how the hell is "let's make this 12 year old fat so we can shame him across the galaxy next issue" clever or funny in the slightest!? It's just pointlessly cruel and stupid. I know I shouldn't let that effect my whole opinion on the series but the fact that people said that was a "glorious return" annoys me so much.

I guess the only problem is that he was fat...

1) Invader Zim has mean-spirited humor. Also, the grass is green.

2) He's not just fat. Or is "filth-shaming" also a thing? When you don't shower or cut your hair or take of yourself in any way, you can't use "fat-shaming" as a shield.

Not moving a lot is just apart of not taking care of yourself...

Pretty much all he did while watching Zim's house was eat to keep himself alive.

I know this is a small thing to get hung up over, but it's still a bit hard to ignore for me.

Plus regardless of intent some might take this more personally a certain way.

That's unavoidable...

I will go farther than Snailfish and say the whole filth thing isnt a thing for fat people and causes the masses to associate fat people with filth.

But it is a thing for Invader Zim. Everything is ugly, disgusting and filthy. Nothing looks clean. Everything is stained or greasy. And everyone is terrible.

The point isnt that Dib is fat. It's that Zim's decade spanning Master plan was a pretty attempt to mock Dib rather than some grand scheme to conquer the Earth. To the point that the question of what the characters did when you werent watching is a flat "nothing."

Edited by Zeromaeus on Jan 7th 2022 at 1:11:24 PM

That's more like it!

It would be rather unrealistic if he didn't gain weight. Plus the whole plan was that Dib would become too weak and gross to oppose Zim anymore. Wouldn't be much of a training montage if it was just Dib taking a shower.

But honestly, I think it was meant to be taken personally.

There are ways to look at this gag. It could be dig at basement dwellers, it could be just your typical "world hates Dib, let's put him through the worst stuff and laugh at his misery" stuff that happens in IZ so often. Then there is the fact that Jhonen Vasquez clearly intended Dib to deserve some things that happen to him just a little due to his deluded overly obsessive behavior - and if there was ever a case when he brought misfortune on himself, it's this one. But finally, it was simple Take That, Audience! towards obsessive Zim fans who spend last years just waiting for the show to come back.

Regarding that, it also has to do with the fact that the series can be a little too excessively cruel to a character who doesn't deserve it.

Dib is obsessive, asocial and often self-centered at the expense of others, but it's another thing when his whole life is utter shit, no bright spots whatsoever, for trying to save the world or just existing.

The movie is pretty much a big win for Dib though. It's his happy ending. Honestly at times, the show could be a bit too mean for its own good. I know that the creator regrets having Gaz be so mean, so as to be pretty one-note.

Also, is it just me, or has Invader Zim influenced the way muggles are shown in other animated shows that came after it? Like, I'm noticing this trend in cartoons, where muggles are seen as excessively stupid compared to the main characters.

Edited by Bornstellar on Jan 8th 2022 at 9:36:55 AM

It's not really the same...

That definitely came more from Spongebob because 'fickle'...not just ignorant.

I think the 'generic side characters are assholes unless proven nice' trope originated with The Simpsons.

I don't want to stir up an argument or anything, but I think the reason comparing the series to the movie bothers me is because it's rather jarring how Dib's treatment contrasts. Dib gets abused and mocked throughout both comic and cartoon to the point of just being unpleasant. And before you say, "Well, it's mean and dark, get over it", there's being dark and then there's just being cruel for the sake of being cruel. The first two comic issues, for instance are just an excuse to humiliate and shit on Dib, while the same premise in Florpus wants you to believe his life could get better. I somehow wonder if there's an original ending where Dib fails at everything and dies, because the series did not suggest his life could get better. Would anyone watch the series on it's own and think Dib's family "cared" for him?

And that's my biggest problem with Zim as a whole. After a while, the "kid gets abused and treated like shit for trying to be a hero" trope isn't funny, it's just pointlessly cruel.

Yeah, I guess it is pretty funny.

I mean it could be "better" but in situations like this, that's only a compromise and...not there being an actual problem.

Edited by randomness4 on Apr 9th 2022 at 1:36:54 PM

The big difference between the show and the movie is honestly how Zim is treated. In the show, Zim isn't treated as a legitimate threat so all of Dib's heroics can come off as self-indulgent. Here, Zim is someone who has to be taken down, so Dib can't be as much as a punching bag if he's leading the charge.

The movie as a whole is Lighter and Softer then the series. The character designs are rounder, the world looks less gritty, Gaz is nicer, and the plot is more traditional good guy vs bad guy with Dib as the protagonist this time around. It's what makes the movie more unique instead of being just an extra long episode. Even the Tallest get punished at the end, and you could choose to see it as the end of the Irken Empire and their quest of conquest.

I find that Gaz is the biggest outlier in all of this. It's honestly weird going back to the original show after watching the movie and reading the comics, because I've gotten used to her... actually caring about Dib's wellbeing. On the flipside, coming straight from the original show to the movie, Gaz cheering up Dib and telling him he's stronger than he thinks he is probably comes across as a bullshit OOC moment that would take you out of the movie for a bit.

Edited by RacattackForce on Apr 10th 2022 at 12:09:00 PM

While I liked Enter the Florpus, Gaz was essentially a completely different character in it if you hadn't been reading the comics, which I hadn't been. It was really jarring.

I wouldn't say she's completely different, just really toned down. She's certainly not as mean or as super competent as she was in the show. And it works in her character's favor as she's certainly less one note.

Away from Gaz, I like how the movie toned down Gir. He was and probably still is super popular merchandise wise, so it's good they didn't have him take up space in the movie and gave it to Gaz, who was almost a recurring character in the show as opposed to a main character.

I mean given how Gaz is, tone down feel almost OOC for her.

I still enjoy the episode were she have revenge against that boy who stole the videogame, that was good.