Type-Moon: Fate/stay night, Tsukihime, and Kara no Kyoukai discussion

Yeah, that a somewhat contrived leap of reasoning.

Meanwhile in FGO she just summons it willy-nilly.

literally the same logic as the innocent monster skill

"Because everyone thinks they're a monster, they're summoned as a monster" vs "Because everyone thinks she built some terraced gardens, flying laser fortress".

It would be interesting if that aspect was ever commented on since we already touched on reputation obscuring facts with Vlad, but you already know by now why not.

Beautiful garden —-> Flying Fortress of Doom.

Where did those additional functionalities came from if she didn't build them and they're not part of her legend? Who knows.

Is that what people think when they think of Hanging Hardens?

I admit I have no idea what those are.

"Because everyone thinks they were a monster we gave them dragon horns. Because everyone thinks she was a guy oh hey look over there run"

Is there a single person before Apocrypha who would think of hanging gardens and not think of... gardens in some sense?

Hey, that exception predates Innocent Monster.

Edited by RainehDaze on Feb 12th 2021 at 2:19:49 PM

I mean

During initial LN run, people were speculating what Hanging Gardens would be like as a NP

Someone on BL thought it would be Flying Fortress and lol guess what

That sounds like a lucky guess rather than any consideration of what they thought the hanging gardens are.

Obviously Babylonian Hanging Gardens were flying Magitek Fortresses.

Maybe Amakusa tricked things. There's no detail on what "construct the Gardens" actually means, besides a few lines about the cost. So maybe he added all the laser cannons and flight capabilities, and while he couldn't create all that for real, he was able to get close enough that when he summoned her and the material framework became her Noble Phantasm, those additions he added became real.

Or, because in the Nasuverse the ancient world was basically Magi Tech Precursor land, the real Hanging Gardens could do all that, and they got downgraded sometime since because some magic conspiracy stripped all the weapons off the fortress or something.

'ed on that last bit.

Edited by Discar on Feb 12th 2021 at 7:18:55 AM

All explanations that maybe could have worked if they were in any way hinted at or included and not just presented us with a flying laser fortress.

Also if it was a bloody garden. The clue is in the name.

There are garden parts, actually. Usually seen during Shirou and Semi's dates.

Honestly, this is not a new phenomenon in Fate, so IDK why it's bothering you now. Invisible Air is just straight out made up by Nasu, and show me where in history/folklore it said Gilles de Rais had Lovecraft magic.

Edited by asterism on Feb 13th 2021 at 8:40:25 PM

Also to Fate's credit, pretty sure that the Hanging Gardens were never really a garden in a traditional sense. Like it isn't like a flat plain and rather a giant palace with variety of plants and trees growing outside of it like a giant mountain (for example◊). Of course the "Hanging" refers to how the plants are planted on raised structures rather than the garden literally "hanging", but wordplay is fun.

alright, second to last episode of apocrypha!

ah, so amakusa is just shiro but bad. i guess it's in the name. except like, he's kind of right? the whole philosophical conflict feels so... poorly done. but, whatever, we have the main heroine we needed the boy to save her, and remind her of the very things she's been representing this whole time, because of course she needed him. definitely calling it misogyny at this point.

we dont even get a good action sequence where she gets to go, like, all out. that was the thing i wanted the most from the show, and all we get is... a laser battle, and then she dies. cool.

and why is semiramis still alive??? fuck, cmon mordred you had one job. i think that's what annoys me the most about apocrypha, characters would have their big moment and... then it still didn't take care of things.

AND YEAH SURE OKAY SIEG IS SUPER POWERED BECAUSE OF FRAN'S LIGHTNING COOL

whatever, Sieg vs Amakusa looks cool at the very least. i kinda like the idea of Sieg's only motivation to stop Amakusa is to fulfill Jeanne's last wish and also because he's really pissed he lost his girlfriend.

well, onto the last episode...

Go all out with what exactly? Jeanne is like the first Servant who has more of a defensive kit and her real offensive thing is "kill one thing, alongside yourself". She can fight on her own, but she isn't designed to pull big stunts.

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/La_Pucelle

final episode! about time!

amakusa's relationship with semiramis is.... really cute?? this would have been a fantastic thing to expand upon. but, honestly, this final moment between the two was great.

and aww, where's my romantic heartfelt goodbye kiss between Sieg and Astolfo

oh, shakespeare, you dramatic bastard.

but sieg became fafnir for.... some.... reason....? sure, i'll roll with it, it's been foreshadowed. i honestly like sieg outsmarting amakusa's wish by taking the grail to somewhere where it'll never be able to activate again.

wait, what on earth is up with Waver? did this just imply the fourth holy grail war happened in some form where he met Iskandar? what??

i guess astolfo got incarnated, and is now saving people, which, sure. i guess that's a cute ending for them.

and, yknow what, the absolute final scene was really cute. i'm going to end this all on a positive note. Apocrypha, good job on making that final scene, on its own, heartwarming.

anyway overall review: yeah it was an anime, with characters and a plot. there were also fight sequences, and it definitely had an ending.

i like la pucelle as a concept. i just don't think it was utilized well, because it ultimately ends with her dying, amakusa still is alive, and then we get a super cool fight sequence with the boy actually finishing the job.

an extended fight sequence between Jeanne and Amakusa would have been absolutely fantastic. the most we'd gotten out of Jeanne up until that point was against Atalante, and she didn't even finish the fight there, Achilles did.

Edited by EpicBleye on Feb 13th 2021 at 4:31:22 AM

Regardless of the world, Waver will always become Lord El Melloi II for various different reasons

sucks to be kayneth i guess

ED: One of the things in the backstory of the Apocrypha world is Darnic leaked the details of the Grail, and everyone and their mother started setting up knockoff Grail Wars.

Also because the Matous are fuctionally extinct, Sakura was adopted by the Edelferts instead and, I shit you not, became a pro-wrestler.

Edited by asterism on Feb 13th 2021 at 9:29:06 AM

?? both these things are way cooler than apocrypha's plot, where's our anime about those??

I want an anime about Pro Wrestler Sakura and her alter ego, the terrifying BB-Chan.

Astolfo didn't actually get reincarnated. Just that his contrast with Sieg didn't end and now that he is a dragon, a being that generate mana on their own, it means that Astolfo is plugged into a mana battery meaning that he can stay materialized.

Edited by TPPR10 on Feb 13th 2021 at 11:32:23 AM

What the fuck this is the first I'm hearing of pro-wrestler Sakura.

x9 His goal is wrong for resons that Nasu of course knows but for which Apocrypha doesnt elaborate.

Since it isnt until FGO we got info on Pruning Phenomenon and Lostbelts, after all. Which is stupid, because you could easily have someone bring up the world might stagnate enough that the universe will erase them all fromexistence as a counter to Amakusa.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Feb 13th 2021 at 1:37:31 AM