Total War: General discussion.

Yeah but not trading with like the rest of the map is the worst.

That's a consideration only worth thinking about if you want to go for the This is Total War! achievement...and then of course you would be declaring war on Sparta immediately anyway.

Athens is a coastal city though, they can trade from the beginning. Unless you just mean that Sparta is trapped into not being able to trade in its current position.

I need to get back to playing Shogun 2 again. The fact that enemy armies can swarm you with samurai annoyed me greatly, especially in sieges.

@PRC 4 Eva: Shimazu can recruit them immediately, though. And they have a blacksmith in the same province as their sword school. You know what to do with that.

Combine that with a corner position, generally good land on Kyushu, and (should you desire it) easy access to Christianity, and playing the Shimazu is practically cheating.

Actually I don't know what to do with blacksmiths. Is it generally considered better to make them into armorers or weaponsmiths?

Also, how annoying is Realm Divide in actuality to play? Debating if I should just get a mod that removes it, or try to experience it at least once once before that.

Majority of people like armorsmith better because it's the only way to make units more resistant to damage (especially arrows) while attack strength can always be increased in other manners like experience or generals leveling up.

How much you like Realm Divide depends on the person. Some people dislike that it makes diplomacy useless, others like that it gives you an endgame challenge rather than just fight your neighbors one by one. Personally I wish it just didn't affect your vassals too, otherwise I have no problems with that mechanic.

Edited by Resileafs on Jun 22nd 2023 at 5:00:20 AM

Honestly, do whichever you want with them, neither is really a wrong answer. The armoursmith will have a more noticeable effect on units that have less armour, and weaponsmith will do the same with regards to attack.

Realm Divide will warp the game around it with everyone hating you aside from a few subtler ways to get people to ally with you, largely turning the game into constant combat up until you win. However, it's entirely playable once you know about it, it's just the first time when people don't see it coming it gets overwhelming. If you so choose to, you can delay it by avoiding taking more territory or even deliberating causing territory you don't care for much to rebel.

The armourer is almost always better than the weaponsmith, if only because of how much your yari ashigaru benefit from it. Yari ashigaru are the most important unit in the game, so it's always a good idea to give them some support.

I think weaponsmiths are more fun, though. Get your Katana Samurai some gold swords, and they'll overrun an enemy position in a blink of an eye. From there you can roll up the rest of their line for a very satisfying victory.

Athens campaign complete in 71 turns, quite fast (though obviously not as fast as Pergamon).

As it turns out, I did not betray Sparta or the island nations. In fact, I allied with the majority of Greek states nearby. After I rose up in rebellion against Macedon, I also attacked Seleucia to get friendly relationship with the eastern Mediterranean factions, gaining alliances with Pergamon, Pontus, Egypt and Nabataea. With the east secured, I focused on conquering the west. I took the Balkans, allied with the barbarians in Dacia, avoided getting in wars with the Germans and fought my way into the Alps. Next, I fought against Rome, allying with Massilia as it turned out they had started an invasion of Italy themselves. Once I was in a comfortable position there, I also fought the Arverni to advance into Iberia and eventually fought Carthage to get territories in Africa. Made them and Syracuse my client states to finish the campaign.

Not much to say about the roster since it's the same as Syracuse's, and I didn't get to the top of the military tech tree. I focused more on naval power this game anyway since you get access to the best units you can train there very quickly. The extra experience certainly encouraged to focus on that.

4 factions left to play, the next one will be the Seleucid Empire. Their major advantage is that their government starts as an empire, which is usually something you only get to do in the mid-game with other factions. That makes them virtually immune to civil war and gives them major bonuses otherwise. They also can train more levy units from satrapies (useless, I would much prefer training my own units) and extra income from farms (boring, but very practical). Their major weakness will surprise no one, they are heavily under threat on every side. To the east, the satrapies near Baktria are all about to rebel. To the south, Nabataea and Eypt are on the warpath. To the north, the Asia Minor factions are all ready to fight against Sardes. Things are about to go down and my starting troops are not great. In the endgame though, they have one of the best roster, with high tier swords, spears, pikes, archers, shock and melee cavalry and armored elephants.

For the early game, I think I will take it careful to see what I need to secure in priority. I am at war with the Qidri, so I think I will make them into a satrapy first so I don't have to deal with Arabia for now. I'll use my strong treasury to build my economy and make sure I have the means to build up a large army as well. Then we'll see how things progress and who I have to make war with.

Actually, what I do with the armorsmith when I'm not doing Oda (Long Yari Ashigaru+gold armor=Stone Wall hell) is I armor up my naginata monks (especially Ikko monks) and watch them cut down everything.

With katana (or naginata) samurai, I agree to favoring the gold sword. Just slash through everything.

Gold armour on naginata monks is definitely classic cheese, but I find that they are too expensive, too slow to recruit and too directly in competition with samurai to actually matter for most of the campaign. They're something to play around with during endgame, and can be skipped entirely (Ikko monks obviously excluded). Yari Ashigaru are with you from the start of the campaign to the end, so giving them armour upgrades is usually much more impactful.

Yes, but using only yari ashigaru is boring (aside from when you're the Oda clan). It's much more fun to use those big, powerful units, especially when you reach Realm Divide.

Oh, definitely. It's just that PRC was asking what to do with their first blacksmith as Shimazu, and I didn't think that "gold armour monks" was a very helpful answer for someone still getting to grips with the game.

This is true (and I have a slightly skewed view of the game just because the II are my favorite faction, so I sometimes end up building monks even with factions that have no business doing so). As mentioned, for the Shimazu you wanna go weaponsmith, because samurai have enough armor and katana samurai are an absolute slaughter against armies that aren't prepared to receive them.

That said, even the basic+weaponsmith katana samurai are absolute murder in the early game, giving the Shimazu a really fast start.

Edited by Ramidel on Jun 26th 2023 at 6:23:26 AM

Stepping away from Shogun for a bit, I was feeling rather bronze age-y after watching some Pharaoh stuff, decided to take a dive on Troy and just finished a campaign as Paris. I gotta say, I regret sleeping on this game for so long. It has a great look, and the focus on infantry tactics makes it feel very different from other Total War games I've played. I also really enjoy the battle maps that feel varied and interesting, as opposed to Warhammer maps where anything other than flat open terrain feels like a nuisance.

Finally, I'm having a lot of fun with just how far you can push certain units if you're willing to commit. In my Paris campaign, my basic archers had missile damage going over 100, at a range of 200. It was really funny being able to machine gun half the enemy army before they could even think about making contact.

Of course, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. The map is way too densely packed with settlements. Most of my landbattles were on sea because on land every battle was a settlement battle. Glad that Pharaoh is looking to fix that issue. Also, though not unrelated, the most mind-numbingly boring endgame I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing in Total War, and we all know how high a bar that is to clear.

Currently running an Achilles campaign. Won the war against my starting enemy down south, declared war on another faction further down south, and got declared war on by five different factions on my northern flank. Two of which had a non-aggression pact with me, and two others didn't even share a border with me. Achilles is now (quite rightfully) pissed off, and I'm having fun putting them all back in line.

Edited by Kayeka on Jun 27th 2023 at 1:15:36 PM

Yeah, I need to get around to playing that game too. Unfortunately I play all of my games on Steam so I've not touched it. I got it for free, but still.

So you're saying that you're bringing them to heel?

Sure did! Kicked them back to the stone age. Achilles' "outraged" mood gave me a load of bonuses to battle loot and sack value, and penalties to my growth and economy, so instead of outright conquering them I figured I'd be getting more out of their provinces by dragging the wars out and constantly sacking all their settlements. Earned enough resources to develop my own four provinces, upgrade my two existing armies and recruit a third.

Eventually I fed most of their lands to an ally and made them pay reparations. With my rear secured like that, I set sail for Troy since the game kept nagging me to get involved in that particular business. First I took the island of Lesbos, since I figured it would make a very good forward base from which the conquer the rest of Anatolia. Then the game gave me an epic mission to have Achilles' army enter the actual region of Troy. Once I did that, the completely unrelated "Poseidon Strikes!" event fired, which destroyed Troy's famous walls and knackered its garrison.

I hadn't actually intended to take Troy then and there, but considering how though a nut Troy is to crack, and I just happened to have two armies nearby, I figured I couldn't let such a golden opportunity pass and laid siege. I still didn't have the juice to take it in an assault, though, because in addition to the (now knackered) garrison, Troy is also guarded by what is probably the single most powerful "end boss" army in Total War history. We're talking the most elite units the Trojan factions could provide, with heavy armour, armour-piercing long-range missiles and eight ranks of experience. Since my armies were made with mobility in mind and struggled against heavy armour, I figured it would be better to quickly raise an additional army to help out. And, just in case another opportunity would come by, I also said a prayer to Ares, which would give all my enemies a twenty percent penalty to morale.

Said opportunity actually came. A minor Trojan ally had a bit of an AI moment, and decided to "relieve" the Trojans by attacking Achilles with five units, dragging their army into an open field battle. It was still a hard fight, but I managed to barely come out on top, and I took Troy the next turn. Which I honestly kind of regret, since I worry it will mess with Achilles' Epic Missions, which I need to fulfil for a campaign victory. I had only just surrendered Briseis (shifting Achilles' mood to "Indignant"), so actually occupying Troy is a bit of a Sequence Break. Perhaps sacking and coming back later at a more dramatically appropriate time would have been more proper, though I suppose that would risk having my Greek allies move into the city instead. Ah well, we'll see.

EDIT: Also, apparently Troy is now on sale. I really should've seen that coming. Goddammit.

Edited by Kayeka on Jun 29th 2023 at 2:58:43 PM

Quick victory for my Seleucid campaign on turn 76, mainly thanks to starting enormous rather than diplomacy like in previous campaigns.

Turns out the early campaign isn't that hard. The only threats to me in the early campaign ended up being Egypt and Nabataea, so I only had to focus on the south for a while. Even when my far eastern satrapies rebelled, I didn't have to do anything and managed to get peace back with them relatively quickly.

My most major victories happened in Arabia, where I was able to turn every faction there except Nabataea into my satrapies without actually fighting, only needed to start a war then force them to become my satrapies in the following treaty. This allowed me to focus completely on Egypt until my economy was strong enough to train additional armies and send them into Asia Minor. Those armies quickly overran the region, were eventually upgraded to Thorax armies once I was far enough in research, then marched further north into the Bosporus, then west into the Balkans, where they defeated the Macedonians, Spartans and Epirotes. This left me only with Rome as my major opponent to defeat to win the campaign. I prepared additional armies and fleets, sent a couple eastward to reclaim my lost satrapies and claim Baktria from Parthia, and began my attack on Rome. They were rather easily defeated, and the whole of Italy soon fell to my forces, winning the campaign.

Couldn't get my best units for this campaign unfortunately, starting as such a large faction definitely made things rather interesting though. Diplomacy was not viable due to starting the campaign with pretty hefty diplomatic penalties with everyone due to expansionism, but I was quite lucky that I didn't need to spend too many resources on Arabia thanks to everyone being eager to bend the knee to me.

Three campaigns left to play, my next one will be as the Nervii, a gallic tribe located in Belgium, whose strength lies in ambushes. I don't expect anything particularly new for the campaign compared to all the other gallic ones though, so probably gonna be fairly boring, their roster is the same as every other Celtic faction except their mid-tier is called 'fierce swords' and don't have much armor.

Edited by Resileafs on Jun 30th 2023 at 10:39:20 AM

They still have Oathsworn so I still hate them with every fiber of my being

I may have delayed Realm Divide for too long and now my ally Yamana has taken over Kyoto. Moreover, the Chosokabe are in the same alliance, and they seem to also like each other. Need to get the latter to turn on the former somehow, probably by joining a war against some mutual third party.

I did manage to capture a Black Ship after some save and reloading. Seems like I can't use too much fire when attacking it, otherwise it'll count it as having sunk even if I board it later.

They won't be your allies once RD hits!

Hey, there's a chance!

Mostly if only if you marry a daughter off to them right before Realm Divide hits.

A bit about the Pharaoh's Egyptian faction mechanics.

Seems like Emperor units are ending up in this game too (naturally, called Pharaoh Elite units instead). They also describe units from specific regions having styles while not ascribing them to factions or leaders specifically, so perhaps some form of Rome's auxiliary mechanics from Rome II may also end up in Pharaoh, though there is no explicit statement on this and it's really just a guess.

Nervii campaign completed in 125 turns. Nothing to really say that is special, the oathsworn spam made short work of just about everyone I came in contact with, though it had a pretty difficult start due to the lack of access to food in the early game making it difficult to make proper armies at first. Things quickly got much easier once I took over Britannia, followed by Gaul and Germania, and so one until I had Italy, Iberia, the Balkans and half of Asia Minor.

Two campaigns left, the next one will be as Epirus, which I expect to have a very difficult start, surrounded by hostile factions and wide open territories to protect. Having to decide who to fight first and survive the early game hell will be quite the challenge.