Final Fantasy general

Oh, I don't know about what the Internet does, but I can assure you I'm not sexist in my emo accusations.

For me, it's about how genuine I perceive the character's feelings. The difference between a genuinely brooding/angsty/whatever character and emo is the difference between genuine drama and melodrama, at least for me. And AC!Cloud very, very firmly fell in the melodrama category.

edited 25th Apr '15 1:37:07 AM by Cozzer

Yep. Lack of subtlety hits hard with that stuff.

Which is especially bullshit, because not only did VII pull off an incredible amount of subtlety as is, but it was the very, very first game to have 3D models, and therefore body language. And they took advantage of that as often as possible. And here they have this motion capture Blu-Ray shit with these detailed facial models that someone clearly put a lot of time and effort into, and rather than implement any of this (or write it a better script, that could've helped) or actually use the model of Cloud they had where the director or someone even outright said they put a lot of detail into his eyes so they could express everything since he doesn't let on much at first and does the "stiff upper lip" thing, they just have them announce how they're feeling in the sappiest manner possible.

At least they shut up for the last forty-five minutes.

Except at the end when he leers into the camera. Eugh.

edited 25th Apr '15 1:41:40 AM by WonderSquid

Also Yoshi-P is still the happiest person.

edited 25th Apr '15 2:57:26 AM by LordofLore

I think the FF 7 fans are also to blame in this situation. Cloud was not the sole victim of bowdlerisation, it also hit the Turks - they were competent in the original game (well, Reno & Rude at least), they become goofy later on - and especially Aerith (even harder than Cloud if you ask me).

The whole point of the Tifa/Aerith dynamic in VII is that their personalities do not match their combat skills. Then in AC, suddenly, they fit, and in Kingdom Hearts, and in all spinoff games...The Aerith from Kingdom Hearts pretty much has X!Yuna's personality, not VII!Aerith's.

I think that the fans were more than happy to go on with archetypes for Cloud and Aerith, and Square went along to please them.

But then again, Square has an habit of setting high standards for its characters, only for lowering them later for the sake of fanservice. I still can't understand how they could give a sexy Miq'ote costume to Lightning, it goes against everything in her persona. And don't get me started on X-2.

...well, to be fair Vaan became rather decent in FFTA2.

Anyway, in retrospect, the great IX having no sequel or spinoff to speak of may be a blessing in disguise. I really wouldn't want to see Eiko grow up and become some kind of stripperiffic witch, or Freyja turned into a Stay in the Kitchen wife.

edited 25th Apr '15 5:00:28 AM by Julep

Oh God the Turks in Advent Children. Hey, look at this goofy lovable rogue good guy Reno, who committed genocide on the whole Sector 7 and never showed a bit of remorse, he's totally on the heroes' side because fangirls!

To be fair, the Turks were always goofy. You find Rude and Reno talking about who they crush on like school age kids early in the game, and Rude is flat out coded not to harm Tifa if it all possible. Elena is consistently dorky and ineffectual throughout the game, and the whole crew isn't much more than comic relief outside a handful of scenes.

That XIV fighting game machinima was amazing. I'd love a Final Fantasy fighter without SE's convoluted bells and whistles attached.

Yeah, that's true, but at least they are goofy villains in the game. Also, in AC they get more screentime than most of the main cast. :/

edited 25th Apr '15 7:18:44 AM by Cozzer

@Wonder: You can also add Mo S!Superman to the list, as well as Jason Todd, Damian Wayne, and Young Justice!Conner Kent.

As for Edward Elric... out of curiosity, do these accusations focus more on original anime Edward or Manga Edward?

I still haven't got around to finishing the original anime, and as you likely know it and the manga have rather significant differences from each other... they basically aren't even the same story anymoreafter the time of the laboratory where Barry The Chopper is first introduced.

The Miqo'te Garb in LR: Lightning probably hates it due to what she had to do to complete that quest. She gets it as a reward for telling four girls dressing up as chocobo's their secret password which is Meow-Meow, Choco-chow(it was a whole other thing in the japanese version which is apparently really hard to translate). Lightning is really embarrassed by having to say the phrase and the last girl gives her the Garb to not make her mad since Lightning would only get some fireworks as a reward otherwise IIRC. Hope is having a lot of fun during that quest teasing Lightning about having to try to be cute when saying the password.

At the same time as the game was released XIV players could get Lightning and Snow's XIII outfits. The whole thing was a cross-promotion.

edited 25th Apr '15 6:46:59 AM by LordofLore

Yeah, well, for this garb to fit Lightning, she should get the option to burn the damn thing down when she receives it.

She does make comments about how revealing it is but Hope is rather insistent on it and its power.

The game does not force you to have her wear it ever, only one outfit is ever forced on you and that is the purple dress she has to get for the play. And that is only because there is an FMV in the sequence.

True, but that does not change the fact that the dressphere/garb system is only used in FF games with female-only parties. And they can't resist adding some fanservice-y outfits, even if it goes completely against the persona of the character.

The only mixed-party example of the clothes system is Bravely Default, and of course it takes the completely wrong course of "classy males, sexy females".

Honestly, take Ringabel and Lightning: which one is more likely to run into battle half-naked just because s/he looks sexy?

Square Enix is completely going backwards compared to many other editors. I am a Bioware fanboy; if you see how BW treats its female characters now compared to how SE does, it's hard to believe that 10-15 years ago, they pretty much were on equal ground. SE is pretty much stuck in puberty.

edited 25th Apr '15 8:33:56 AM by Julep

Which takes on a new light after the reveal.

FFV also had clases change clothes.

And FFIII, for that matter.

...and Tactics (all 3 of them).

Yeah, and Tactics had single-gendered races. For some reason, the humans never have to wear Elementalist-like clothes.◊ Don't know why.

Considering the graphics of FFIII & V, I can't really say that there is fanservice involved. However, it seems that the minidresses w/ ZettaiRyouiki for female black mages are a recent creation◊. And I'll even be nice and won't comment on how Cloud of Darkness looks in Dissidia.

edited 25th Apr '15 8:54:34 AM by Julep

The new FF Mobius mobile game is pretty much a male main charactered Lightning Returns complete with costume changes, really horrible design choices and all.

God that blue outfit in the latest trailer is still so horrid looking.

edited 25th Apr '15 8:55:56 AM by Memers

...since in that case fans complained and ended up having some clothes added to the character, I'm not exactly holding my breath.

Jecht and Tidus◊ are running around shirtless and in shorts in that game.

edited 25th Apr '15 8:58:24 AM by Memers

Humans have sensible outfits, true.

Of course, then you have Seeq, who have about as much coverage combined across their four jobs as the smallest Human job's outfit.

edit:

To say that look belongs to Dissidia would be disingenuous. It appears to be a pretty much direct interpretation of the original concept art for the character. And is technically more covered than the original sprite. So it's III which is to blame for Cloud of Darkness, not Dissidia.

edited 25th Apr '15 9:13:18 AM by Enlong

And to be fair, Cloud of Darkness really acts too weird to come off as sexy within Dissidia.

That is quite true there seeing how it is not human and just the personification of an evil cloud and seeing how the stereotype is Evil Is Sexy the look is natural for it but it does not understand it let alone use it well as the REALLY funny scene with Laguna shows.

Anyway I would say though it is balanced by the father and son Evil Is Sexy pair in Jecht and Tidus though, they are both wearing bathing suits and are a Walking Shirtless Scene duo, and then there is Vaan... and Kuja, How could I forget about him.

most of the others are all quite sensible.

edited 25th Apr '15 10:15:20 AM by Memers

I partly agree with you, but uh, Male Geomancers from Tactics.

Male monks show about as much skin as the females, too.◊

Most of Tactics' otherwise are pretty evenhanded. The only overtly sexy female class is the Dancer, and by pretty much anything in Bravely Default's standards, it's pretty damn tame.◊

Yoshida's normally pretty good about those practical clothing design, at least when he's working with Matsuno and his games, but they went full blown cheesecake with Bravely Default because it was made with Japan's audience in mind primarily and (I'm assuming) doesn't take itself nearly as seriously in its home country.

There are also shirtless Golbez and Sephiroth alts. And there is Kuja, period.

Hate the female Vampire design.

And before anyone asks, both. But especially the original.