The General Star Wars Thread

I still like that casual shrug he gives when Rey force bonds the other saber into his hands.

Like, no one has anything good to say about him, and I'm not gonna try to defend him, but that got a chuckle out of me.

Saying positive things about Kylo is Taboo in this sub-forum.

And try to say something nice only provokes Slimcoder to come say, the reasons why you're wrong

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jan 18th 2022 at 6:14:54 AM

Well there is nothing good you can really say about him.

It's Kylo, he's the disappointment.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 18th 2022 at 6:15:43 AM

Well that's what happens when people see similarities between Kylo Ren and what would be his real-life counterparts in the United States.

Maybe they shouldn't have just copied the Nazi asethetics if they didn't want their First Order and Supreme Leader to be seen as Neo-Nazis.

Kylo is the only character who is consistently interesting in the sequel trilogy, for better or worse.

It's hard to find Kylo sympathetic when most of his character boils down to being a Neo-Nazi / alt-right school shooter who blames everything on his family issues.

Edited by M84 on Jan 18th 2022 at 10:18:13 PM

Yeah, he's got the most complete story arc. It doesn't really make him sympathetic, but you know.

With Rey, they can't even keep her consistent for more than one film.

I feel RL events have made it harder to sympathize with Imperial characters TBH.

Which is why you should just go all out in making them evil.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jan 18th 2022 at 9:19:21 AM

Anyway, to say something good about Kylo is Taboo, according to Slimcoder

Bro, this is a Star Wars forum not a complain about other users forum.

Returning to Ben Solo

The others padawans didn't hate him, in fact they did their best to help him.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jan 18th 2022 at 6:22:23 AM

I'd say RL events does make Rose's whole "win by protecting what we love" dumber cause cause it kinda highlights violence as a necessity.

Like what else are you gonna do when a group of people makes it their life mission to deny your existence and destroy you. That is actual evil and they won't go down with pretty words.

I want to like Rose, but the writers really made her look the dumbest, which is a great feat considering how dumb most of the other characters are in The Last Jedi.

One thing I'm fond of saying:

• Step One of Growing Up: Learning not everything is Black and White. Not every situation has a clear Good Guy and Bad Guy.

• Step Two of Growing Up: Learning that some things are Black and White. Some situations do have a clear Good Guy and Bad Guy.

Rose is no pacifist. Her claim is more admonishing against throwing yourself so deep in the fight you forget the point of it. Strikes and mobilization are of course essential, but so is taking time with the people you love because one of the key tactics of oppression is trying to deny their victims rest and calm.

The sad thing is had Finn sacrificed his life it would have been the best ending the character could have gotten.

I definitely don’t agree. There’s way more to be done with the character, and even the scant offerings of TROS were better than outright killing him.

I also intensely disagree. Killing off the only black character in the film because "hey, it's a dramatic moment, somebody has to die" would've been even worse than the marginalization he already faced in the trilogy, and imo would've been a cop out of the character development that - to be fair - they didn't bother following up on anyway.

The thing about "Snoke was manipulating him" is that its blatantly telling rather than showing. We never see any indication that anything Kylo is doing is because of Snoke, pretty much at all. The Kylo we see - from beginning to end - is a guy so wrapped up in his own entitlement and self-importance that he's willing to kill: and all of that comes from him, not Snoke. Snoke doesn't really do anything but give him orders, connect him with Rey and die.

Essentially, the movies tried to use a couple lines of Noodle Incident to cheat giving Kylo an actual three-dimensional reason for being the way he was.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 18th 2022 at 6:54:12 AM

Contrast with Anakin. We actually see Palpatine influencing Anakin throughout the movies and in expanded materials. This starts at the end of Phantom Menace when Palpatine pats Anakin on the shoulder like an affectionate grandpa figure while telling him he'll watch his career with great interest.

Yeah, it baffles me how many people want Finn to die in that scene. When there was so much he could still do.

Like Stormtrooper rebellion, but sadly it got squandered.

What's worse is that Snoke and Kylo Ren's dynamic is just a copy paste of Anakin and Palpatine's messed up son and father dynamic without any of the interactions. Then they decide to just give up, and straight up have it be Palpatine.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jan 18th 2022 at 9:59:38 AM

Admitably I was weighing which is worse, dying in the middle of a trilogy or the very humiliating "REEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYY".

Well hopefully they use to good effect next time he appears whenever that will be.

While Anakin being really influenced by Palpatine on a personal level (rather than simply being subservient) doesn't become a thing until Return of the Jedi, once the film does introduce it then goes all in on having us understand that its a thing - including a conversation with Vader himself where he listens to Luke's plea for him to change, and he refuses not because of X blaming of other people or more villainous rants, but because he believes its too late for him to change (Vader is also noticeably more sullen and reserved in general in that film than the previous two, likely to also help sell the idea). It's a small scene, but its the kind of context you need for that sort of thing to land.

And even so, it's also important to remember that Vader's redemption isn't part of Anakin's character arc. The idea that the Star Wars films is Anakin's story came later. Convincing Vader to change sides is the culmination of Luke's character arc: it's Luke's moral victory. But from the beginning, the ST was trying to sell Kylo as another principal character whose emotions and choices were as important to the story as Rey's.

So how they choose to tell his story matters - presumably they wanted to handle it similar to how Vader's origins were originally stated ("he was seduced by the dark side"), but ignoring the difference in phrasing (Vader's explanation makes it clear he chose his path, which doesn't need near as much explanation) Vader was much less of a principal character than Kylo was. Reducing the really major idea that he's not really evil, just under manipulation to a never-explained Noodle Incident is outright shocking.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 18th 2022 at 7:05:38 AM

Yeah, I was a bit bothered by how Lucas tried to retcon the OT as Anakin's story, not Luke.

Even claiming Darth Vader becomes the hero and fulfills the space prophecy by killing Palpatine.

Which isn't exactly how it works. Luke's still the main character of the OT.

Okay, fair point but even before TROS, people were still clamoring for him to die a heroic death which is absurd and wasteful. I'm like one of the few people to actually like the Casino planet subplot to some extent, and while I still don't like Rose, she did make the right call in saving Finn, but her speech was still pretty dumb.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jan 18th 2022 at 10:06:16 AM

There's at least 3 or 4 characters in the ST that are...if not interesting, than at least charismatic. Actually, one of the things the ST did pretty well is that its main heroes had some pretty great chemistry.

@Weirdguy 149 With Rose, the biggest problem the character has is that she's used to very bluntly deliver the themes of the story.

Heh funny thought, if Rey and Finn ever get together maybe Rey slams back at Kylo telling Finn "I don't know what I was thinking ever being into that asshole."

Man that be great to see.

While I actually am a Rey-Finn shipper (their interactions in TFA are adorable), I think that'd be a little too...Die for Our Ship I suppose? Heck, for that matter I'm pretty sure that Kylo got that kiss because of silly shipping tropes being popular anyways.

Personally, I'd probably not bring up too strongly the sexual tension or kiss between Rey and Kylo and instead just say "She moved on".

If I were asked to bring it up though, I'd actually have something like Kylo's Force Ghost show up and encourage her to find someone else or at least move on from him. Though that'd probably be calling too much attention to it.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Jan 18th 2022 at 7:26:51 AM