The General Star Wars Thread

Turns out unlimited power isn’t so fun without an enemy to exert power over.

Sheev was probably dancing in his office when he hear the Rebellion could fight back.

Turns out Sheev didn't think that far ahead.

He conquered the galaxy? What now?!?

That failure to think of what now is kind of what doomed the Empire. Not entirely, but the whole thing was built up to conquer the galaxy. And when it did, it was simply unable to adapt. It's like when you climb the top of Mt. Everest and refuse to go back down. Either you fall all the way down, or you just die and freeze up there.

It's why Palpatine didn't have any plans for establishing something like Social Security, or advances in Health Care (besides cloning I guess), or any of the peacetime measures that an empire would need to be say, Rome, I suppose. Like the Roman Empire, its not inconceivable that the Empire could have lasted for hundreds of years or more. But Papa Palps didn't think that far, and probably just didn't want to since that would mean having to build a stable government structure which his Sith ego couldn't do.

You can't just spend all your money building more military weapons and infrastructure when you don't have anywhere to send it all. It's not being destroyed fast enough, ironically, so the production is way too fast and can't work in peacetime. So you have Imperials just bored as hell firing at things probably because they don't know what else to do with all their fancy Kuat approved gunboats. And taking over the banks doesn't account, pun intended, for all that funding that is needed to do all that. I can imagine the Imperials buying the banking clan and being confused when they see there are just a bunch of empty vaults.

It's no wonder a Rebellion popped up and tore them down. They practically needed one. Otherwise they were eventually gonna start shooting each other.

Edited by Patar136 on Sep 21st 2023 at 9:19:16 AM

In The Force Unleashed (yeah I know), the Light ending has Palpatine actually worried about the new Rebel Alliance. He recognizes that he and Vader unwittingly planted the seeds of something that could pose a genuine threat to them.

Palpatine: You must be relentless, Lord Vader. If even a single rebel survives, this Alliance that we have unwittingly created, will be our undoing.

Palpatine's savvy to the fact that As Long as There Is One Man, his reign will never be secure.

After all, two Sith were enough to bring down the Jedi Order and the Republic.

Edited by M84 on Sep 22nd 2023 at 12:21:30 AM

Even Legends had him get really pissed off when he discovered that the Rebellion was more organized and more wide-spread than he first thought.

But part of that mention was so old that it also stated that Palpatine cut off Vader's hand after the first Death Star was destroyed.

Sometimes I think that for Palpatine, the widespread suffering caused by a badly run Empire was the goal all along.

Like, at times the Empire is such a horrific mess even when it doesn't appear to be trying to that it almost seems intentional after all.

He basically likes distractions, but not actual threats.

It's why he tried to take out Maul personally in Clone Wars. Maul was a potential rival and a real threat.

While it probably wasn't intentional, Palpatine clearly didn't give a shit about it.

Heck, in ROS, it turns out even the Empire was just a stepping stone. His true aim was to recreate the old Sith Empire through pure brute force. The Empire it seems was just a means by which to gather the firepower and forces needed to purge the Galaxy in one fell swoop with the Final Order.

Edited by M84 on Sep 22nd 2023 at 12:25:43 AM

I find it very funny and also frustrating though that the New Republic couldn't just invalidate the Empire afterwards for the hoax it was. But going forward, a Third Republic (let's be honest, Disney will probably do this.... and it won't last long but whatever) can probably do what the New Republic couldn't: discredit the Imperial philosophy.

You know how the allies defeated Nazism in Germany in post WW 2? They brought food. They brought jobs. They brought common goods that the Germans desperately needed. They were told by the Nazis that they would be exterminated, and instead they were given sustenance.

Picture this, the Third Republic brings food to Kuat. The people on that world who are expecting bloodthirsty rebels as part of propaganda are instead able to see the Imperials for the shams they were.

Even then, it took a while for Nazism to truly vanish from Germany. That fascist shit sticks.

Granted, all those examples are from legends, Palpatine in canon did take a sick joy in fighting the rebels on Ryloth.

Dude was treating a rebel assassination attempt as an excuse to cut loose and use those dark side powers.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 22nd 2023 at 12:28:59 AM

One joke I saw once was this idea, which I will paraphrase.

Edited by Patar136 on Sep 21st 2023 at 9:36:12 AM

That doesn't seem accurate to what we see of the Rebels, considering they do have bases they're stationed at for long periods. Staying in a fleet perpetually isn't practical, when ships have to be fueled, have limited space, limited air, can't have big farms, and have limited means of travel through known hyperspace lanes. They do move around, but typically when they're discovered, not every week.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 21st 2023 at 10:14:18 AM

Oh I know, I just like to imagine Leia saying that, confusing the shit out of him and giving him an identity crisis before he realizes her ploy and says "I'm destroying Alderaan just for that."

Even if that was the case, the Empire could simply use the Death Star to destroy any of those "friendly planets" that get caught giving resources to the rebels.

That Rebel Alliance will have two choices:

1-They stand and engage the Death Star to protect their benefactors and get crushed.

2- They run away, but after a planet or two gets destroyed, they will start to find it hard to find anyone who will give them any resources, and they will lose support for being ineffective.

Edited by jawal on Sep 22nd 2023 at 1:37:11 PM

Good points to be sure.

Given the Cold War connections to the Death Star, I wonder what George Lucas thought of the USSR. Did he see them as the Rebel Alliance?

Was Stalin one of the influences for Palpatine?

Nixon certainly is.

Add it to Hitler and the Roman guys, really.

Lucas took inspiration from a lot of things, but it falls apart if you look too closely at each piece. Battle of Endor was explicitly a Vietnam analog, but largely in the sense of lower-tech natives outfighting a superior army. Clone Wars became Bush-era War on Terror in the sense of a manufactured threat to justify militarization. Nixon and Cheney have been said to be alternating inspirations for Palpatine, though the prequel story was well underway before Cheney was a relevent figure.

But what does Lucas think of the USSR? I know that during that time frame there were definitely some leftist sympathies from certain groups throughout the 60s and 70s. And I do know that George has been on record as liking how films are made in the Soviet Union, only noting they have to be careful about what is said about the government.

So I guess corporate overlords are bad but government censorship is less bad.

But it would be interesting to see if anything can be found about his thoughts on the Soviet Union.

In that analogy of the War in Middle East being manufactured, wouldn't that make the muslim terrorists the battle droids? Yeah no wonder you aren't supposed to think about this too deeply.

What exactly is in common between the Rebel Alliance and the Soviet Union??

One is a resistance movement fighting for freedom and democracy, and the other is a tyrannical state that allows no freedom or democracy.

Edited by jawal on Sep 22nd 2023 at 8:55:44 PM

It is bassicaly if al-Qaeda was secretly founded by American president so he would have pretext to tigther his grip on american people and conquer Middle East.

George does have mix of not thinking alegories thought and using events more as inspirations for his Franchise steped in Fantasy archetypes.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Sep 22nd 2023 at 12:57:40 PM

The Empire has similarities to America. The Empire has similarities to Nazi Germany. The Soviet Union became an enemy of both, with the American alliance eventually leading to Cold War.

So if the Empire is the above, what could the Soviets be? The Rebels are the opposite of the Empire are they not?

The Soviet Union liked to claim that they were fighting for freedom against the capitalist pigs and for those oppressed by, cough cough, imperialism?

Edited by Patar136 on Sep 22nd 2023 at 12:58:39 PM

Why is it necessary to have a Soviet analogy in the first place?

Not exacly. Rebel alliance is specificaly relatively small group of rebels fighting against Massive Empire, while USSA was America’s rival and generally egual in power (kinda like Separatist were to Republic).

Edited by EmperorGeode on Sep 22nd 2023 at 12:59:31 PM

Because I find it fascinating.

Let's emphasize that last point. The Soviets were opposed to western imperialism, and said such many times. It's called the "Imperial Senate" and "Imperial fleet." Something is at play here.

OH, I see. The Soviet Union is the Republic. And the capitalists are the Separatists. Yeah, this works better but still has issues.

Old Republic anyone? Any communism in the Old Republic factions?

Edited by Patar136 on Sep 22nd 2023 at 1:01:53 AM

This feels like trying too hard to fit everything in Star Wars into a literal historical reading. The Empire and the Rebels take influence from a lot of sources and aren’t meant to be just one specific historical faction. It’s part of Star Wars’s theme that history is cyclical. Nazi Germany mirroring the British Empire mirroring War on Terror America, and so on. There isn’t just one faction that therefore “equals Soviets” and such.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 22nd 2023 at 1:01:24 AM