Fire Emblem Three Houses (Spoiler Thread)

Byleth would make for a poor monarch and pope. Sure they're good in battles but what's their political acumen here and how spiritual are they even?

In AM, Dimitri shouldn't be ruling anything and isn't mentally fit for the role. If Rodrigue had lived, I'd have argued that Dimitri should've stepped down as monarch and given the position to Rodrigue with the agreement that Rodrigue do all in his power to release and help Duscur. That would've been the ideal AM ending. Byleth should've surrendered control of the Church to Seteth.

In SS, it's fine since it's basically just completing Rhea's goal of Byleth/Sothis becoming God-Emperor of Fodlan.

CF is fine as well since it is Edelgard completing her over-arching goal that's been driving her.

In VW, it should've ended with Claude revealing himself to be an Almyran at the end to the rest of Fodlan before the Nemesis battle in an attempt to challenge the people's perceptions of Almyrans. And then that should've ended with the nobles/people of Fodlan electing Claude as their king and then Claude should've left a regency of the people he trusts(the people whose opinions he helped changed first like Lorenz, Hilda, Marianne, Byleth, Judith, Nader etc) in control of Fodlan to rule in his name while he does the same thing he did in Fodlan to Almyra. That's more sensible to me than Claude giving it away to Byleth. Or alternatively, Claude stays in Fodlan and schemes from afar to get Almyra to fall into his hands first.

Edited by MadSkillz on May 18th 2022 at 9:09:13 AM

The political acumen is seen in a Byleth who puts in the time and effort to recruit students outside of their House.

@m84 Something tells me Byleth wasn't thinking about politics when she was recruiting those students

Saying that it’s okay because Edelgard achieved her goal is way off the mark, because she doesn’t even understand how her system of government actually works, as merit benefitts the powerful and the elite aka the nobles over the commoners even when Meritocratic systems have been implemented in history. And rather than admit that her system doesn’t help those with unfavorable circumstances is made ABUNDANTLY CLEAR to blame the weak for their inability to advance when they don’t have the resources to do so in her meeting with Dimitri on AM, or heck even on CF she never thought of public education for all, a basic NECESSITY for her system to work in the first place, and it’s Hubert and Ferdinand who actually realize this is a necessity, and it’s not the first time Hubert’s shown a concern for education like hiring more teachers for those left behind while Edelgard just thinks they should leave. Heck she won’t even allow Byleths achievements to be made public because it would make her look bad and show her Merit based system is being undermined by her as well.

Her ideal government works IN SPITE of Edelgard. Not because of her.

Not to mention all the implied instability from rebellions in Shamir and Hubert’s ending, the Secret Police, the fact she has an absolute dictatorship with no checks to her power or how every successor after her with have zero checks to their power, her giving power to the corrupt who benefitted her regime like the entirety of the Alliance to Caspars dad, the fact Caspar saw enough battles to become Minister of War in open conflict after the war, fighting a shadow war against the Agarthans, the fact she unknowingly creates a religion that worships power and a absolute monarchy which will most definitely never be abused just like we’ve never had any villainous Red Emperors who also advocate for the same ideal system, or a Divine Dragon with the same beliefs in Duma

Not to mention if you are going to use Dimitris mental health issues against him, Edelgard willingly working with the Slithers because it benefits HER makes her unfit to rule by default. The fact she deals with them afterwards doesn’t matter, because clearly Dimitri learning to deal with his issues by the end of AM is being used against him and will be always held against him. Her working with human Supremacists will therefore always be held against her.

Honestly with the fact that many of the same tactics she uses are used in real life, including right now, bothers me immensely when people say it just works. Especially when people point out the dangers of her ideal system and she dismisses them or she has to be Isekai’d to Heroes to even get a perspective from Lissa.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 18th 2022 at 8:39:56 AM

@Omega You have no idea why I said the CF ending works for me. You should have asked me why first to save you time.

It has nothing to do with what's good or bad for society(all the endings are happy endings for Fodlan anyway) but about the route's narrative and what would be in-character.

Being dissatisfied with the current options and using social interactions and gifts and other actions to win support from people to achieve the option you want is intensely political.

x3 Pretty sure her ending works by virtue of not there being an actual Golden Route. Because if you ask me, it's not that hard to come up with reasons to explain why every reform each lord bring up in their respective routes should not be easily feasible beyond the "they won the war, so they now can do whatever they want as victors" excuse.

Also fun fact about Edelgard's convo with Lissa on Heroes: Despite what people might believe of the whole forging bonds, Edelgard makes clear at the end her stance on things did not change one bit. The only actual realization she has is that she shouldn't let her opinion on destiny and crests impact her self-image (which in AM and the FB is implied to be really ugly).

Edited by Blackress on May 18th 2022 at 9:53:56 PM

@M84 Only if it's on purpose. I don't think the game is trying to sell Byleth like that to us.

Yeah no. The moment you said Dimitri is a head case, and the clear ableism intended, I knew very much what you meant. Because I’ve seen that attitude before, and it’s deeply uncomfortable cause of the way it’s used towards Dimitri and Rhea, people who Edelgard actively traumatizes by pushing their trauma triggers, just as the Agarthans do.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 18th 2022 at 8:54:47 AM

Of course it's on purpose. Byleth wants these people on their team, so Byleth works to win them over. It's just that Byleth at that time has no way to know this would have more significant ramifications than school Houses.

@Omega The point I wanted to make was that the character I'm being sold at the end of AM would've recognized that he wouldn't have been a healthy choice for king and would've stepped down for someone far more experienced as long as his promise to free Duscur and helps its people got follow through on. And I think that would've been a much better story choice.

You're trying to make this some Edelgard v Dimitri battle because Dimitri/AM criticism makes you snap which ended with you giving a me 4 paragraph post on Edelgard.

Edited by MadSkillz on May 18th 2022 at 9:13:17 AM

Yeah, also not a fan of the ableism either. "Head-case"? Really?

I edited it to make it nicer but if there's another phrase that's nicer to you then go ahead and give it to me.

That's a lot of projection.

You don't have to give gifts to these people on your team or try to interact with them besides asking them to join. You could just have high stats and that's good enough for them.

But actually getting those stats and skill levels means Byleth is taking in interest in the things that interest them. And in some cases it's pretty difficult to pull it off without also raising Support levels.

Sure, a Byleth in NG might be able to recruit everyone before the timeskip without resorting to raising any Supports and simply raise all of their stats and skill levels with grinding. But that's way harder and more time-consuming.

Edited by M84 on May 19th 2022 at 12:16:17 AM

That’s not what you implied at all. Dimitri very much lives for other people. It’s what defines his trauma. Living and serving the will of people he believes deserve better has always defined him, just as it does his self-loathing because he believes he doesn’t deserve to live unlike everyone else, and learning to be selfish enough to value his own life too and that it isn’t something to just throw away.

Living for his own sake to make others lives better, and being pushed and helped by those same lives to be better himself, is Dimitris journey. It’s why it is emphasized and contrasted that Edelgard is cheered by an homogeneous army, Dimitri is cheered on by civilians who he frees.

Dimitri and Edelgard don’t exist in a bubble. Their routes and characters are directly designed as contrasts of each other. The belief in others vs the belief in power. The belief in finding the light vs believing in living in darkness even when talking about finding the light. Even when Edelgard talks about things like bonds, her ideal of personal merit over all else means that will always trump what she feels personally deep down.

It’s why the framing in that was extremely bad. Just say it didn’t work for you personally, and you feel someone else should lead in contrast, but Rodrigue is not equipped to do so as he isn’t even sure of how to save Dimitri, and it took literally dying just to find the answer to save just one soul, and it still wasn’t enough, he needed to be pushed more by Byleth.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 18th 2022 at 9:20:48 AM

Yeah, Dimitri's trauma is in large part due to his father's dying words. Dimitri remembers Lambert pleading with him to avenge their deaths. Assuming that's what Lambert actually said, that's a lot of baggage to place on your own son who is still a child.

Edited by M84 on May 19th 2022 at 12:20:00 AM

I'm not convinced by the claim Dimitri is not good king material in AM if you ask me. While his main weakness ruling-wise - acknowledged in-universe - is that he lets his personal feelings for most of the story influence his judgement on things, AM is also the only path which gives him the chance to put his priorities straight and tame his beef with Edelgard, after which he's shown being a pretty cool King overall.

x2

...Which only happens in Azure Moon when circumstances force Edelgard to do so. Remember: different timelines are a thing in 3Hs, and by result, not every character remains the same in every route after the timeskip. Case in point: your claim about Edelgard not prioritizing bonds is spot on for AM's Edelgard, but trying to do the same for her CF-self, who's given the chance to lower her guard and be herself with others, is another story entirely.

Edited by Blackress on May 18th 2022 at 10:26:19 PM

Even on CF, her system is still an absolutely monarchy decided by merit. The rule of power by default means there can’t ever be an actual equal for Edelgard, despite this being EXACTLY what she wants from Byleth and others.

It’s the nature of how it as an ideal defines power first and everything else afterwards. It’s why when Edelgard does indulge her other side, it’s when she believes she no longer needs to be that ideal, or can show her true self hidden behind the Absolute Ruler mask she wishes to present as in private.

Not to say she doesn’t find the joy she longs for with others, but that mask and ideal always come first, and it does on every route.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 18th 2022 at 9:37:46 AM

This isn't well-executed enough for me to really care all that much about. The prioritization of parallels can really drag a story down.

And I honestly think Dimitri is ill-fit to be Edelgard's House Leader parallel. Claude would've been my personally pick for that type of role here.

That's what I've been saying.

1) Rodrigue not knowing how to "save a soul" doesn't mean he'd be a bad king. Those 2 aren't even related.

2)Rodrigue works for me because he is the second most powerful man in the country, has experience ruling, lost his son in the Duscur Incident and realizing the truth would make him also want to make amends to the people of Duscur so he'd be on a similar wavelength to what Dimitri's primary political goal is.

3)This would necessitate replacing Gilbert as a playable character completely with Rodrigue though and more supports to flesh Rodrigue out.

4) The only bizarre thing about it is that it would Felix the crown prince which would be odd as hell(albeit hilarious).

We have proof that they're all good kings and queens at the end of their routes. It's just that the end before we get the epilogue card, I believe the stronger story choice and more in-character would be for Dimitri to relinquish his throne to someone better fit.

It very much is related because Fire Emblem strongly follows an idealized version of the Mandate of Heaven. A Benevolent Ruler is one who lives for others sake and guides them, and in turn they learn to be better by following their leaders example. Marth, Alm/Celica, Seliph, Leif, Roy, Eliwood, Ephriam/Eirika, Elincia/Sanaki, etc. Are all benevolent rulers, and their stories is rising up to be the saviors in a land fallen to chaos.

Rodrigue doesn’t know how to help those he feels are in need himself, and Dimitri was a perfect example of of a soul he wants to save. It’s why him submitting to Dimitri despite knowing this will likely get Dimitri killed, because he wasn’t willing to confront Dimitri to the point it could hurt him emotionally. So dying for another’s sake to save them, but making it clear he did it for his own personal reasons and not because of Dimitri, was part of that.

@Blackress: Also I feel Bernadette’s comedic ending even shows this well. Bernie freaking out over Edelgard policies is how she tries to not become absorbed in her Absolute Emperor mask.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 18th 2022 at 10:05:28 AM

x3

And that applies only in political affairs. Edelgard's annoyance comes from her status impacting her relationship with others, so she very much welcomes anyone who can separate "job Edelgard" from "person Edelgard" and treat her accordingly (which is the whole point of her support with Bernie AFAIK).

Edited by Blackress on May 18th 2022 at 10:50:02 PM

The problem though is that for the nation and the people, what they see is only the mask. So the example they follow is the Absolute Ruler. Rather than the person she was in private, which she keeps secluded that even historians only have the barest scraps of knowledge of due to her privacy.

Image matters after all, and all the people see is the Absolute Ruler, not a woman who loves like anyone else behind closed doors.

Thats why we have the Tapestries which represent them and their ideals. Edelgards focuses solely on her ideals, not on the person she actually is.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 18th 2022 at 9:54:32 AM

Even when she ditched the Flame Emperor mask she still wears a mask.

FE tradition means nothing to me though and regardless, I personally think Claude would've been a better fit for the role as the "Savior King"-role that they tried to put Dimitri in.

I'm talking about a different version of Rodrigue than you are. You're talking about the Rodrigue we got. I'm talking about the Rodrigue we could've gotten to fit the role that I would've preferred for him.

Edited by MadSkillz on May 18th 2022 at 10:12:19 AM

Well we would have never gotten that.

FE is very big on reusing character Archetypes. Azure Moon was the easiest route for them to write because it was the one most like a regular FE story despite SS being the route all others are based on, save for its most distinct trait being Dimitri falling to darkness and finding the light again.

About the only blue lord who never became a ruler was Ike, who didn’t like positions of power despite earning them. his early arc was his dads Nepotism fracturing the mercenaries they lead, and it was his moral character and his skill that lead others to see why he was chosen for that position. Plus the whole not being of Royal Bloodline. Even when he earned a title at court he discarded that due to his disdain for politics and politicians.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 18th 2022 at 10:22:46 AM