Fire Emblem Three Houses (Spoiler Thread)

Today I finished Claude and Flayn's support chain and learned that Claude fantasizes about calling Seteth daddy and Flayn wants to watch.

So, a while back I joked about recruiting all of the Blue Lions on a GD run and training them up to be Mortal Savants. I'm not actually doing that on my current run.

I'm just doing it with Sylvain, Felix, Annette, and Ingrid.

And I'm training Catherine to be a Mortal Adept.

EDIT: And, because I just got though the Holy Tomb and Edelgard's speech: Edelgard isn't fighting to "reform" the Church of Seiros, she doesn't "hate the Church but not the faith"; she outright calls it a "foul belief system" that must be "torn down". The German script is even more explicit; she says it "muss... vernichtet werden"; "must be annihilated".

Also, I think one thing about Edelgard that rubs me the wrong way is that... well, put simply, she's a conspiracy theorist. She believes that the political divisions of Fodlan weren't the result of complicated politics, but because there was one evil player in the background who masterminded it all, and that everything will be great once they kill that party.

Edited by MisterTambourineMan on Jan 16th 2021 at 10:18:20 AM

I mean, the politics is rooted from the source, which is the crest. Having a crest gives you a lot of privilege in Fodlan.

No, I mean that she believes that the Kingdom and Alliance exist as political entities separate from the Empire because of some evil plot by the Church. that's the big crux behind her speech following the battle at the Holy Tomb.

And having a Crest doesn't automatically make you a member of the nobility.

Does it? Because those who bear Crests are all over the place in nobility. Dominic is a Baron and Galatea can struggle to sustain themselves despite being far higher in noble title than the Dominics, and Annette who has a crest is even lower due to being a Knights child. Even Viscount Kleimann outranks the Dominics.

Of the Ministers a number dont have Crests but are of the highest position of authority from Bergliez to Vestra, and two Crest bearing families lost everything years ago.

The writing really wants to say it gives such boons, but the story itself at the same time puts them everywhere so it doesnt feel like it does.

Not to mention how the Empire Crests are used to flaunt wealth, while the Kingdom views it as a responsibility to be used wisely. So even the way nations handle Crests are fundamentally different and dont fit into the same mold.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 16th 2021 at 11:56:36 AM

Well the heir to the throne of Fearghus tend story have an Crest and even disinherited Dimi's uncle because of that and Gautier enjoys very high privileges because of thief Crest. It is mostly the 10 Elites descendants who play importance in Crest mainly because their houses very established that way in the first place and they are the majority of all Crest bearers, even more do than those who carry the Seiros crest.

While Crests are important, the writing makes it more complicated (more so than it needs to be) by having exceptions to the rule.

I personally don't like how they present the traditionalist Empire as the house with the least Crests despite being the most Conservative and Authotarian country. Hubert should have been the bearer of the Macuil crest as it fits with his Arcana, his role as the second-in-Command to Edelgard the Seiros Crest-bearer but also his much darker and more pessimistic personality that mirrors Macuils,which would actually make him much more powerful than he is. Caspar makes an fine exception, because he is supposed to be an underground, he should have however gotten a better skill and stats. If I were to give him an Crest, it would be the Crest of Indech or Cichol.

The Kingdom is more complicated because Feudalism is not really all that real in the history of our own world, which makes Fearghus less relatable as an Kingdom. I consider Ingrid an exception because of their territory being Ecconomically weak but Annette has no excuse for her low status.

The Alliance places a lot of importance of Crests, since 4 of the 5 houses that rule it are confirmed Crest bearers. The Riegan family placed high importance of Crests and would have accepted anyone with the appropriate Crest, but then Hanneman ruins it in CF by saying a lot of people had the Riegan Crest already, I wish Khalid had an major Crest of Riegan and establish that this is the requirement to become leader of that House.

Addendum: Crest of Macuil should have the ability to attack a second time when using magic, it would be like adapt for magic.

Edited by Tropetalker on Jan 16th 2021 at 9:29:00 PM

Apparently, there was someone with Macuil blood according to Edelgard x Constance B.

Edelgard is an unreliable narrator and she doesn't count. I want an real example. Khalid is better because what he says is consistent with the lore unlike Edelgard or Lorenz.

...In everything? Could you provide a bit more to dismiss or say that specific piece of information is not to be taken seriously?

If you're going to say "she's lying or has bad info", then...I'm going to want something back up the idea this specific thing is her lying or having bad info, rather then a blanket dismissal or license to doubt everything she says, no matter what?

What's the context of her saying this? For what is she saying this and is there anything to indicate it's false, then or later?

Information often is given to the audience as well as the characters, so, it's usually not wrong without hints to it's lack of veracity or later denial.

Edit: Plus, a B social support doesn't suggest a lie or bad info, either from the character or the writer.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jan 16th 2021 at 12:55:20 PM

Wow. I literally said something of contrary but you waved it off.

Constance: All of the answers you seek are tied to House Nuvelle's origins. Close to a thousand years ago, Saint Noa parted ways with Saint Seiros. She lived out her days in seclusion on what would become Nuvelle territory. Her children obscured their origins before serving the Empire. It wasn't long before they were ennobled. I suspect Saint Noa feared that revealing her Crest would only lead to tragedy.
Edelgard: So she passed it off as the Crest of Macuil, which already existed within the Empire...

Edited by mariovsonic999 on Jan 16th 2021 at 12:52:42 PM

x5 Dimitri's Uncle was indeed Disinherited, but was also still raised into high ranking nobility. So while Blaiyyd requires a Crest, they don't drive the family into the ground. Grand Dukes are even above prince/esses in authority. Though below a King and the Archduke. Thats why everyone is waiting for Dimitri to become King.

Compared to say the Empire having its ruler demamd a Crest and have a Harem, yet nothing is said about the vast amount of family Edelgard should have in such a situation from cousins, uncles, aunts, distant relatives, etc.. Even as simple as them being all culled for not bearing Crests or marrying into another family.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 16th 2021 at 1:06:46 AM

It's almost 2 years since the game was first released and its already established that Edelgard is an unreliable narrator because most of what she says misses context, evidence and is pretty inconsistent with the data we got. Macuil has no confirmed bearers of his crests and he is shown to be even more misanthropic than Rhea, so he most likely never shared his crest with anyone. Edelgard is from an sheltered household and as such would only be fed Imperial propaganda and traditional teachings instead of new evidence like Khalid or like Rhea the truth. Shall I just link the 2 posts detailing why Edelgard's history is bad? Its very long so think about it.

You gave me Edelgard,no evidence. I need to see an Human with Macuils crest to prove her point, until then, she could be very wrong, considering that he is an major Saint and the strongest of the 4 saints, both story-wise and gameplay-wise. His Wind caller form is even an emblem for the strongest mages for the Church and you can see it in Seteth's room and in the Commander's bureau.

You think that if Claude had said the same thing in Part 1 it would somehow be more conclusive? Why? What info does Claude have at that point in the game that other characters don't have? Also, it's not like the existence of imperial nobility with the Crest of Macuil is part of Edelgard's secret history or anytihng. This is stuff she casually mentions to Constance and Constance herself immediately recognizes.

Edited by Druplesnubb on Jan 16th 2021 at 10:45:12 AM

No because he was wrong about Flayn and Seteth. Also it's not casual it's Edelgard telling the player this through this support, but we have nit seen this crest in any Human, not even Hubert(who should have it).

...I mean. The actual words do sound pretty casual, in that social support. Like, it's mostly Constance that provides that information and Eddie who provides her bit of extra speculation.

Also, I think you may have...misunderstood my point about "information is not only given to the characters but the audience". Or, at the very least, you're not contradicting Drup as much as you think you are. A "casual" in-universe scene can also be delivering information to the audience, such as. You know. Most social supports.

ALSO, if you're going to say that the character is also delivering information to the audience, then, just maybe, you can admit that information is meant to be true in some way? At the very least, not complete bullshit you can dismiss without a second thought?

Edited by fredhot16 on Jan 16th 2021 at 2:10:17 AM

That they casual talking is something that is true, but info that is important for the game is pretty much something that is relevant for the player and they wanted to add world building to the empire by giving Edelgard this line. I am arguing for the credibility of it and Edelgard can talk so normally about it she wants, people talked casually about the earth being truly flat(there are people still doing it) it does not make it true.

Edelgard is giving us this statement,yet reality never proves or hints at that, in fact the opposite has as much credibility.

Edelgard conveying info to the player is already compromised by the fact that she is consistently wrong about stuff and thus cannot be taken at face value like her version of the war of heroes which smells of imperial propaganda. Khalid provided more info about Macuil than anyone and he never hints to it having no one having it. If Macuil exists within the Empire it would be shown to us, because it's from an important saint and not something obscure like the apostles.

So your problem is Edelgard than the actual information itself. That's helpful...

Edited by mariovsonic999 on Jan 16th 2021 at 2:26:21 AM

So. This might be a misinterpretation but this is sort of what I was afraid of. Remember when I mentioned "a blanket dismissal or license to doubt everything a person says, no matter what"?

Here's how I look at it: a liar does not lie about everything. By that, I mean that if I want to cast doubt or dismiss what a person says, I'd use evidence that actually indicates the person might be lying or wrong ''about that specific piece of information". I take information at a case-by-case basis. Duplicity or wrongness in one area does not immediately translate to meaning that they are lying or wrong about other things.

And the point of it being "casual" is that it's not a scene where the writer would have Eddie be completely wrong for the heck of it, no more then other social supports at that level, especially when it's not about her own issues.

Edit: Wow, I thought this got disappeared because of a internet futze but it actually worked.

Edit^2: As it stands, it's the only bit of information we have, and even then, it's just speculation by Eddie ("that must have happened"), basing it on Constance's talk.

Edit^3: Really, one cannot claim that Eddie is trying to provide information for the player while also being completely wrong. For one thing, it's not Eddie, it's the writer through her because Eddie isn't real.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jan 16th 2021 at 5:50:14 AM

That is a strawman that overshadows anything I said here, even the worst takes in this forum.

Here is the thing, I don't believe everything Edelgard says is wrong, I believe her that her siblings were killed in these horrid experiments and I do believe her that the Agarthans are behind Duscur and I do believe that Zanado is older than even the Empire. My dismissal of what she said regarding the Crest of Macuil is due to how unsound it sounds. If it's really there how could house Nuvelle pass their own Crest as that of Macuil? If it really exists why isn't there any Human in the story with that Crests that has made never before contact with Macuil? Macuil is also shown as an huge misanthrope and doesn't look like someone who trusts humans with any kind of power, considering that he wanted to kill Khalid for having an Crest of the 10 Elites.

In an real life situation you would be right, but this is an game, so any meaningful information in the story has to be consistently shown to be true, unless the narrator is trustworthy or you intend an unreliable narrator like Edelgard. Hubert's family would have attempted to get that Crest for the sake of strengthening their power and that would Thematically parallel Macuil's role to Seiros's. An important theme in CF is to see the younger generation destroy the old one to return Fódlan to old Glory.

Edited by Tropetalker on Jan 17th 2021 at 12:42:46 PM

Edelgard is not even the narrator. It's not something she's stating as fact to Constance. It's her speculating a reason as to why the Nuvelles passed off their crest as Macuil. You clearly don't understand what an Unreliable Narrator is.

Here is the thing, it is not proven and there is no playable character or NPC that is human with that Crest and it could just be another group of Nobles pretending that it is the case. I also understand what an unreliable narrator is and Edelgard is VERY unreliable.

Edelgard is unreliable sure, but that is not applicable here. And really, the other group of nobles could be pretending too? At that point, there is no use in further discussion if you're gonna put forward such ideas. It serves no purpose.

It kinda is considering that this speculation is dubious and thanks to you,I can actually now better see why Edelgard should not be taken at face value, considering that this info is just an hypothesis. Thanks for the info.

Actually we can discuss a lot about this, about how the game uses the unreliable narrator and how well it does use it. About Authorial intent vs endorsement and what they were trying to communicate?

As for the Nobles, they to my knowledge certified their crests for the most part, though there was one Woman or Man(who is an Commoner I think) trying to trick Alois to buy a fake coin from the House of Charon, Cassandra saved him though.

The speculation is not about whether the crest of Macuil exists in the empire or not. It's Edelgard assuming that the fact that it exists being the reason why the Nuvelles chose to pass themselves off as bearing that crest. But you just keep drawing the most incorrect conclusions. That's on you. Just don't expect to be taken seriously anymore.

Edited by RangerJackWalker on Jan 17th 2021 at 5:20:55 AM

I never said it is, I said that this being more of an speculation makes sense, because they aren't as well backed up by evidence and more of an guess.

My conclusion is more coherent than Edelgard's because there is no confirmed bearer of that Crest unlike those of the Apostles or even Rhea's account of the history of Fódlan.I have not insulted you at all in this admittedly heated discussion, so why are you being mean here? Nothing I said was controversial or outlandish, It doesn't merit that response of yours.