Fire Emblem Three Houses (Spoiler Thread)

I wonder what would be the latest point in her life where Edelgard could have been led away from the path she eventually takes.

Also, I'm trying to be nice to Hubert but he keeps threatening to kill me. Can't I put him in detention or send him to the corner with a dunce cap on his head or something?

Fortunately Rhea isn't in SS very much and you get to beat her up at the end. Or unfortunately. Or... I dunno, it was a stupid route.

Edited by Tarlonniel on Oct 22nd 2019 at 5:56:14 AM

Probably gonna get lynched for this, but I actually like Rhea. She's heavily flawed, yes, but so is literally everyone else in this game not named Claude of Flayn, and she only devolves into cackling supervillainy in Crimson Flower, which makes tragic sense once you take her backstory and what she's going through in that route into account.

I honestly have to laugh at all the villifying she got (admittedly I got in on it as well before I learned more about her), particularly the theory she was brainwashing Catherine. I mean, yeah, her slavish devotion to Rhea is kinda creepy (which I think multiple people ingame comment on), but I think brainwashing is a stretch for someone who generally only uses lethal force against those who were using lethal force against her to begin with.

Also if ya'll want to know when the Southern Church is mentioned, a Scholar mentions it on Crimson Flower after defendkng Garreg Mach by a Scholar. I forgot where I heard it and asked someone.

The Church and Adrestia relations have been strained ever since.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Oct 22nd 2019 at 6:03:28 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Rhea is one of my top 5 characters in the game. Had she been a proper lord like she should have she'd probably be above Dimitri. Way more fascinating and grey than basically everyone else.

I think Rhea being very off-putting was intentional. Rhea is a very flawed, uncomfortable person who's obsessed with you in a creepy way but who has done nothing particularly wrong except lying, Edelgard is a very flawed, sympathetic person who's obsessed with you in an endearing way but has done and abetted tons of horrible acts including lying. It's like Hoshido vs. Nohr: you know that the former side is morally superior and makes more sense, but the latter has the characters you feel more connected to.

It's why I notice that a lot of fan theories tend to be along the lines of "This evil thing Edelgard did isn't actually evil, she secretly had good intentions the game never hints at!" and "Rhea secretly did all of this awful stuff the game gives us no evidence of her doing, because look at her she's so creepy!" People just don't want to feel guilty about liking the aggressor more.

I'd love to play a game where you're Rhea/Seiros going up against Nemesis to avenge the slaughter of your people. Ending with the cutscene that starts this game.

One thing I feel Silver Snow did better than Verdant Wind was Edelgard’s death scene. The Silver Snow version feels more impactful since you spend more time with her.

In VW Byleth is going "What she talking about? I barely even know this woman."

"Is your death scene over yet? Can I stab you? No? Okay, I'll be waiting over here..."

VW!Byleth: "Eh, screw it."

*cue Killed Mid-Sentence*

I'm also opposite of most people when it comes to Edelgard and Rhea. I enjoy Edelgard as a deeply flawed and layered character, but I really dislike her for her ruthlessness, methods, and inability to compromise. Meanwhile, I find Rhea's plight and backstory really sympathetic, and her wrongness comes from a misguided love of humanity and her mother. There's also the fact that Rhea's way of screwing up Fódlan involves preserving humanity while Edelgard's is bettering it through indiscriminate spilling of blood.

It also helps that Rhea, as representative of the system that needs change, is open to a better way of handling things, wanting Byleth to take over as a better ruler. In every non-CF route she willingly steps down if she survives, while Edelgard dies in every route but her own because she can't allow herself to compromise.

That is not an unpopular opinion in this thread.

I find it pretty easy to like, find the most interesting, and have as a favorite while not personally agreeing with her methods.

The Edelgard griefing talk was real obnoxious from a few pages back.

I think you accidentally a word.

Are we talking about Rhea? Count me in. Now to start, despite my stance on her, i rather like her character but not personality. Controversial opinion but sure Rhea losing most of her race was tragic, and her killing Nemesis is JUSTIFIED, but that doesn't excuse what she did after, and honestly i'm not super sympathetic of her plight, she had centuries to heal, Seteth had the same loss, but he was able to move past it, and raise Flayn, Rhea is stuck in the past,(Also the game really doesn't play up the whole immortals have a different sense of time thing.) and refuses to move on, and keeps Fodlan trapped in it's current status quo so she can revive mommy and that she thinks it's the best possible solution despite evidence to the contrary. It's irksome to me, because she had all the chances to build something new with people, like Jeralt, but instead sat by and let Jeralt fall in love with Sothis clone mommy just for a chance to revive her dead mom, instead of moving on and finding love with Jeralt. And since i ship Jeralt and Rhea, the thought of her dating Byleth is just gross to me personally in addition to her creepy flirtations and invasions of personal space.(also Alabama) as someone who has dealt with grief, the fact that she constantly ruins any chances of her moving on just to keep to her revive Sothis project is quite unsympathetic to me. I feel that she's comparable to Severus Snape, they both are off-putting characters, with hidden depths that for many allow people to forgive and forget previous interactions, but for others like me it still doesn't erase what they did previously, just made them more sympathetic. Also i find it uncomfortable that people downplay Rhea's manipulations as mere lies, when lying as the supreme religious authority and most powerful person in the continent has HUGE consequences.

The difference between Edelgard and Rhea and what keeps me sympathetic to Edelgard,(CF Edelgard) is that Edelgard can accept criticism, can understand her enemies, does not have black and white insanity, can show mercy, and uses her grief towards something more positive in my opinion to change Fodlan for the better. Rhea... can't. Look at the way Rhea paints Lonato for example, and look at the way Edelgard fights Tempest Dimitri. Edelgard despite her winning argument, is truly saddened by the conflict, and sees that Dimitri is a good man, just fighting for the wrong person, would have been a great king had he been born in peace and grieves over him despite not shedding tears, meanwhile Rhea paints a grieving father as unreasonable and brushes over any concerns on fighting him because he dared to point his sword at the heavens. (IE HER.) I also dislike how upon repeated viewings, she's more pissed at the western Church for interfering with a holy ceremony than she is at the attempted murder of students. There is a reason why Edelgard is much more sympathetic as an antagonist, and is a viable protagonist and Rhea is all " I"LL RIP YOUR HEART OUT" and is not a protagonist on the Church route, Seteth is.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 22nd 2019 at 11:49:17 AM

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

I could have included a "her" or "Edelgard" somewhere in the first part of that statement, but I wanted to speak in a general sense before specifying who I'm talking about. Could have used "character" maybe.

@ Parable. Hubert is a good boy who is just stuck in his emo phase. Also if you see any rags with chloroform, please return it to him. Also ignore those ketchup stains, pest control you see.

EDIT: Wait a minute, Hubert is 20. Seems killing your old teachers is a good way to get held back. Come to think of it, is there an average age for monastery students?

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 22nd 2019 at 11:58:41 AM

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Now that is definitely not true. If mommy hadn't been reborn Edelgard and her war would have destroyed Fódlan. Without Byleth she wouldn't have succeeded beyond killing Dimitri and Claude at Gronder (maybe earlier at Remire). The church would have squashed her and Rhea would have had to build Fódlan anew. Or the Slytherins win and kill everyone, since Edelgard only manages to topple them with Byleth on her side. Regardless of route, it only ends well because Rhea revived mommy

More seriously, even at her best Edelgard is still ruthless and unable to compromise. She can understand other points of view in CF, but understanding Dimitri or Claude doesn't mean she actually does anything to help them, just makes her sadder she has to kill/defeat them (because she's the aggressor in this conflict) and despite the two of them being so similar, she doesn't understand Rhea at all. Her not falling into black and white thinking sadly doesn't extend to her. She's just evil and a shadow dictator.

Rhea is the embodiment of the phrase "The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions." Her plight to me is sympathetic because it's basically "I'm all alone now. The only thing left for me is to protect what my mother loved." Her protecting humanity from destroying itself through war is what makes her take on a holy role. This role doesn't allow her to grow close to humans and she feels isolated doing what she thinks is best based on what Sothis wanted.

Edited by DemonDamian on Oct 23rd 2019 at 2:05:39 PM

Rhea is not alone, she has Seteth, Flayn, Catherine, Jeralt and Cyril. Having a holy role does not stop her from connecting to humans. In fact, her inability to form a lasting connection is part of her fatal flaws. Also when i meant status quo to revive mommy, i meant to say she kept the current status quo in preparation to allow Sothis to take power and to have her family/race revered.(I'm not 100% coherent, just had my wisdom tooth removed so i'm on painkillers.) Why else are those with Crests revered and allowed positions of power. Also i'm sure without Byleth, Edelgard would have won the war by default, Claude and Dimitri need Byleth's help to turn the tides, and CF has less chapters because the Empire steam rolls against all the opponents. Then the Slithers nuke everyone. The End.

Rhea to me, is the embodiment of the phrase " i'm not here for what you intended, i'm here for you did. " sure Rhea had good reasons for keeping Fodlan as it is, but Fodlan as is, is crap. Say what you will about Edelgard, but she does achieve a better Fodlan, people here can say all the want about how meritocracy sucks, but if Edelgard's version really does improve Fodlan, what does it say about the continent? Changing the status quo is also how Claude and Dimitri make Fodlan better. What irks me in Rhea's ending is that she merely goes along with Byleth's reforms instead of having her own new ideas, thanks writing.

Also Edelgard in her route, protects defectors from the Church, can spare Claude, avoids civilian causalities, offers Rhea and her troops the chance to surrender and tries to understand why people worship the faith. That's not ruthless and uncompromising.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 23rd 2019 at 12:21:21 PM

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Oh yeah, when I say I am interested in all of Edelgard, I do mean all of it. I haven't been looking hard enough, but I am interested in reading some Azure Moon/Silver Snow fanfics from Edelgard's perspective. Was hoping I would get that in that "Emerald Moon" fanfic that's supposed to be about combining the Azure Moon and Verdant Wind routes that's recommended on this site. Edelgard wasn't even a real character in that story and left me with a bad first impression of that specific Fandom-Specific Plot.

Edited by IceAnt573 on Oct 23rd 2019 at 3:27:33 PM

I think Emerald moon is for Dimitri and Claude fans, not Edelgard fans. It's like if a Dimitri fan went on a tumblr for Fem Byleth and Edelgard and was annoyed at the lack of Blue Lion fan art.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 23rd 2019 at 12:34:11 PM

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

She doesn't have Catherine, Cyril or Jeralt. They revere her for her role as the archbishop (well, revered, in Jeralt's case), she feels she can't connect with them if she keeps being just that.

And Seteth and Flayn left. People tend to forget their coming back only occurred a decade or so years before the game starts (Flayn even later than Seteth). By this point, Rhea has spent centuries isolated. Brother and niece coming back won't magically fix that.

In fact, if anything cements Rhea's loneliness, it's what happened with the saints. Cichol and Cethleann left her due to the latter's injuries, Indech is a Hikikomori and left to live in solitude, and Macuil is against protecting humans, seeing them as the reason for their suffering. Whether their reasoning was sound or not doesn't matter, the end result is the same: Rhea is left alone.

As for Edelgard, "I'll treat you humanely if you submit to me" is not compromise. Especially after she's driven someone mad and/or at a point where they're unlikely to give up. And it's not that she compromises on stuff like education because of other viewpoints, it's shown she legitimately hadn't thought that far ahead. I'll give you faith on her support with Manuela, but the fact that religion stops existing in her empire and the church becomes a secular humanitarian organization shows that she's not that compromising towards it either.

Rhea's rage is not unjustified yes, but from the perspective of Edelgard and Byleth, it's far from reasonable. Edelgard did not go to the tomb just to drive Rhea insane, Edelgard did not know what the crest stones meant to Rhea, and from Edelgard's perspective, it's quite merciful to offer surrender to someone who is a raging psychopath who calls for the violent death of the empire's people in holy sermons according to NP Cs and wants to rip out the heart of her beloved teacher. I don't see Edelgard offering mercy to be arrogant for that reason.

In regards to Rhea's loneliness, i don't see her position as a valid reason personally. It's quite clear that Catherine and Cyril do care for the lady behind the position, and Rhea had numerous chances to connect with them, for example like teaching Cyril to read. In regards to Jeralt, she ruined her own connection to him with her own lies in regards to Byleth's condition, not because she was revered or anything. And in regards to Seteth, nothing says they weren't in contact in those long years, and it's implied Rhea did help with healing Flayn. And regardless, Rhea keeps Seteth in the dark and at a distance despite being of the same race and family. It's not Rhea's position that keeps people away, it's her own desire for secrecy and to relive the best moments of her life by reviving Sothis instead of making new ones with the people she could have connected with. In some aspects, Edelgard and Rhea are their own worst enemy.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 23rd 2019 at 1:13:17 AM

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Yes, I agree with that. Rhea being lonely is solely Rhea's fault. I'm simply explaining her mindset as to why she feels isolated. My mother once told me good parents can't really be their children's friends until after they grow up, because otherwise they can't guide them and help them mature the way a parent does. And I think Rhea thinks the same. She takes on a motherly role for all of Fódlan, and until Fódlan "grows up" (until Sothis comes back and they don't need her guidance) she'll be unable to befriend anyone in her care. That's what she believes, at least. She doesn't want the love of a child for their mother, she wants friends.

Maybe, with more time, Seteth and Flayn might have been able to break through to her and make her realize she's not truly alone, and to make her stop her experiments with Sothis's heart (even if it's kind of a moot point since they came back after Rhea had succeeded with Byleth), but we'll never know for sure.

Where exactly is it stated that Edelgard abolishes religion? And many of Edelgard's endings has her explicitly get advisors who contrast her own views.