Chainsaw Man

T He sales are only a mere fraction of the overall reception of the anime. So they only matter in a small amount compared to the real method to determine its success which is streaming numbers and such, so it's best not to stick with just DV Ds.

The petition to redo the anime is probably a decent look at the JP fanbase's issues with it?

Disc sales aren't everything, but it is a decent metric for how much people actually liked it. Much better than streaming numbers in that regard

On a personal note, I largely agree with the criticisms, and felt that the anime fundamentally misunderstood what made the manga enjoyable

How widespread was the petition? I thought people exaggerated its relevance.

I dunno! It's just the only clear listing of the complaints I'm aware of. The numbers are pretty low on it, but I imagine that a lot of that it because what it's asking for is crazy?

I assume the petition is entirely comprised of whiners with bizarre standards over the anime.

Let's not give it any validity. It's one of the most embassaring moments by the Chainsaw Fandom, disgraceful stuff.

People complaining about the anime being "Too Filmic" have their head so far up their ass I'm surprised they can even see daylight. Like, holy shit, do they just not know that Fujimoto is a huge film buff?

That means jack and squat as an argument because when you're adapting a series, you should be respecting the tone and mood of the series, not trying to do your own thing.

Regardless of how much of a film buff Fujimoto is, CSM is more unhinged and not super melodramatic, and the anime failed to capitalize on it's best parts.

I've seen this pointed out, but the manga does get decompressed at some points to give it a more cinematic feel. This goes into more than just Fujimoto being a film buff, he actually includes that sort of scene structure in the manga itself.

So the anime adapting it with a more filmic approach is a valid decision.

Edited by slimcoder on May 21st 2023 at 10:02:30 AM

Also, I find it rather disrespectful to put words in Fujimoto's mouth that assume he wouldn't have approved this when some interviews show otherwise.

I recall seeing an interview where Fujimoto seemed fairly excited to see what techniques they'd use for the anime. It was two days ago so the exact words elude me but he at least was aware they were using film techniques.

That being said I feel like there's an in between opinion to "Adaptations are not obligated to be 1:1 to their source material and fandom needs to understand that the perfect adaptation in their head is very unlikely to actually exist" and "Just because something is trying to be a bit different doesn't mean the consumer is obligated to like it and that's fine".

Regardless while the adaptation is probably divisive in the same way something, like sword art online is divisive, I kind of doubt that petition actually means anything worth listening to and if they change the director it'll probably just be a matter of what's convenient rather than because some weirdos are trying to start a narrative that the director looks down on otakus.

So on that Jujutsu Kaisen comparison, Jujutsu Kaisen manga sales between October 2020 to April 2021 went from over 10 million copies to 45 million copies, Chainsaw man went from 18 million copies in October 2022 to 24 million in April 2023. Now, Jujutsu Kaisen was always more popular, but a 350% increase is significantly higher than 33%.

Edited by Ikedatakeshi on May 23rd 2023 at 3:44:38 AM

I think can chalk it up to JJK having more episodes on that front though.

Not to mention a movie and a confirmed second season.

Also Jujutsu is way more standard shounen, CSM is a bit of a horror dramedy, not to knock on either of them.

Meaning the CEO of Mappa overestimated the hype around Chainsaw Man then, if he believed that it was possible to reach a similar level of success as Jujutsu Kaisen.

I mean, what does "filmic" or KINO even mean? Live action movies do come in a wide varieties of styles.

Take Nolan and Wes Anderson's movies for example. They take very different approaches to colour palettes, editing and even music choices, etc.. and they are both highly regarded. So which is better? Which is more KINO?

I'm on the camp that CSM anime could have been better. I'm fine with the So L scenes being more "realistic" and muted, but I don't think the anime sold the weirdness and zanyness of CSM very well. It lacked punches for me. They should have created more contrast between the mundanes and the crazies, IMO.

Take a look at the coloured pages and volume covers of the manga, they are much more vibrant and bold than what the anime shows. More grindhouse and even Wes-Anderson-ish than the more muted Nolan-ish anime.

It kinda sounds like I'm slagging off Nolan, but I'm not. I do like his movies, but there are different types of movies out there with their own merits, and I think CSM anime could have benefited from a slightly different direction, while keeping the cinephile vibe.

That's my 2 cents. A full remake of S1 now is a waste of time though. I just hope they improve the adaptation moving forward.

Yeah, but that doesn't still negate how it's still succesful in its own right.

People probably wouldn't mind as much if Kimetsu wasn't a thing, now everyone wants their series to hit that level

Everyone wants every show to look like Ufotable made it…….

Ufotable is Ufotable, MAPPA is MAPPA, studios shouldn't copy each other.

The irony is that the anime is now at the point of the manga where it starts relatively toning diwn the zanyness and goes for a more dramatic feel. I refuse to use the term ‘cinematic’ cause what does that even *mean* in this context.

Hmmm, after reading the recent messages, I want to pay a little more attention to the volume sales information that "Ikedatakeshi" shared before, specifically the sales numbers prior to airing the anime.

Doing a quick search through wikis, I found that by October 2020, Jujutsu Kaisen had 13 volumes published with almost 10 month of lead up from the announcement of the anime to airing. Using Ikeadatakeshi's provided number, this translated to 10 million volumes.

On the other hand, by October 2022, volume 12 of Chainsaw Man just released, after the long gap between part 1 and part 2, from December 2020 to July 2022, which almost doubles as the period between anime announcement and airing (22 months). Again using the provided number, that results in 18 million volummes sold.

With those numbers in mind, and considering that without new volumes, sales build up slowly for Chainsaw Man during the hype period, you can reach to the following conclusion:

Comparing the sales data from both series, I could see how the Mappa CEO (or anyone for that matter) could expect the Chainsaw Man anime to do as well (or even better) than Jujutsu Kaisen's, since the CM manga seemed to be as popular as JJK's at that point in time, if not even more popular. You can talk about genre or the level of violence, but the reality is that saleswise, there was an comparable audience between both series, which you could expect to lead into a similar growth of the brand as it had happened 2 years prior with Jujutsu.

But it didn't happen, while you can't call Chainsaw Man a failure, it didn't share the level of success that its "predecesor" had, since again a growth of 6 million doesn't compare 35 million. Even if you think that double the episodes would double the sales (maybe even more due to a having longer period in the public eye), 12-15 doesn't match 35.

In short, those numbers reveal why the CEO had legitimate reasons to compare CM and JJK, and that there is space for debate for why the situation evolved like it did, and not sweep the whole thing under the rug.

I'm quite surprised by the criticism, but I don't think it's fair to be rude to people who disliked the anime.

Personally, I strongly disliked many of the chapters that were adapted, and I thought the anime made them better. The bat devil arc is the strongest example. In the manga, Power came off as a super shallow caricature of the typical battle shounen female protagonist. I did not care about her at all and I didn't find any part of her introduction amusing. In the anime, the music and voice acting did a better job of portraying her relationship with (and grief over) Meowy, which impressed me a lot more.

The "zany" aspects of Chainsaw Man honestly just aren't dialled up until later in the manga. I'll wait to see how they adapt the international assassins arc before passing judgement on whether it's too "dialled down."

Like, you're right, but Duelling Works will always invite comparisons.

Edited by indigoJay on May 22nd 2023 at 1:00:28 PM

But even so, JJK is its own thing, and so its CSM, so there's no need for comparison for things that are supposed to be their own stuff.

But the reason the discussion about the anime started again was because of the interview with Mappa's CEO about his perspective of the anime, in which he does compare its performance with JJk, wishing Chainsaw Man could have shared that level of success. It isn't about comparing the story and quality of the animes (both good), but about sales performance, and how that may relate with the reception Chainsaw Man had (which I wish could be discussed in a civil manner, but seems its still be a heated topic, so I slightly regret bringing the interview up).