Follow TV Tropes
Holy crap, Joker won an Oscar for best lead actor. JOKER!!! JOKER!!! JOKER!!!!
I mean, I don't think anybody was suspecting otherwise. It would've been shocking if Phoenix didn't win.
It also won Best Score.
You really think the message "Be nice to the mentally ill or else they'll go on a killing spree" is a GOOD message?
Especially, considering irl, the mentally ill are the ones who are usually victims of violence. Statistically speaking, it's the sane you have to worry about.
It also seems self-contradicting to say “it’s a cautionary tale” but also “the end violence is just drama that can be replaced”. How can it warn if what it warns about is just “replaceable with anything”?
The think is not just mentality ill but also social violence and the two are kinda conected with the movie, in a way gotham humor is almost conect to arthur: depress, incapable of doing anything and it boil on anger more and more.
I guess is the issue here: Arthur is not just victim of is on illness but sociaty expectation he just die or being mocked and push aside, Arthur kinda hint when he said those people were jerk and yet everyone feel bad because thomas wayne feel bad about it.
The problem any Joker film with a message will always have is that the end result is the Joker. The attempted message about societal disenfranchisement and mistreatment of the mentally ill is good on the surface, but it rings hollow because the result is wacky murder clown.
One of Joker's primary problems is that the movie uses mental illness as a crutch for Arthur's behavior. It's hard to really sell the movie having strong things to say about societal problems when it leans very heavy on things like "Arthur couldn't get his meds, and becomes increasingly fine with murdering people" or - most noticeably - "Arthur's problems are compounded by actual hallucinations that start before we even know he has a problem, so how much of what we see is real is thrown into question, and that leads him to (potentially) murder someone who didn't even vaguely deserve it."
There are definitely parts of the movie that read like a "mentally ill guy goes nuts" story, and those parts tend to be the worst parts.
I also question how sincere the movie is with claiming: ‘this is all a story about how society shouldn’t trod over the disabled’ right after saying: ‘now laugh at Gary struggling to open a door’.
I don't disagree with the issue of the sincerity of the film about troding over the disabled.
But in that particular scene I think its all about the terror Gary and the audience is feeling.
It definitely felt played like a joke. The music cut out, the scene went on too long but awkwardly rather than tensely, and the audience I heard laughed rather than reacted in terror.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 11th 2020 at 8:52:14 AM
It’s like one of those cringe comedy scene.
Person really fumbling at the doorknob because they are too terrified to handle it straight & you can’t help but laught at the awkwardness.
Another contradiction is that Arthur straight up murders his mentally ill mother.
And she was in a comatose state. So we don't hear her side of the story or even respond negatively to Arthur. The film frames the sympathy all on Arthur and none on her. And the movie is suppose to be about sensitivity to mental illness.
And then... the issue is never brought up again. It doesn't linger in Arthur's mind and it's not like he was arrested for matricide.
Isn't the Joker supposed to be in the wrong for killing his mother? That's how i read the scene anyway.
Come to think of it, we don't know why he's been arrested at all. Could have been for jaywalking.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Feb 12th 2020 at 6:42:02 AM
My mom's on-and-off friend gave me his Vudu login info and he happens to have this movie on it. So I guess I'll be sitting down and watching it later finally.
"But in that particular scene I think its all about the terror Gary and the audience is feeling.
Is very dark humor that contrast the fact that arthur just kill a man.
"Another contradiction is that Arthur straight up murders his mentally ill mother.
Hard to know if he did actually consider that by that point thing start slippring around.
And yes the movie does lend sympathy for her and how har arthur is to take care for and how much thomas wayne is a jerk for letting her off like that, one can even question the interrogation scene were we learn the truth about arthur mishanding of her because he is there and is clear his imagine her reaction as cold and unforgiving.
Arthur’s a shitty comedian. Of course he’d treat letting the short guy go like a joke.
And so that was Joker. Now, I won't say there aren't things to like. Joaquin Phoenix obviously gives it his all, the coloring and direction is fitting for a shithole like Gotham and the soundtrack is honestly top-notch. But otherwise...yeah no, I don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. Plenty of people here (plus Film Crit Hulk) could and have summated the movie's issues better than I feel like doing now, but basically it just doesn't feel as profound or smart as it's trying to be. It's like a wannabe Taxi Driver or King of Comedy but with a few DC characters and names subbed in. Not racing to watch this again even over other comic book movies. Also, what a waste of Zazie Beetz. Also also, they used a goddamned Gary Glitter song.
I would like to point out that my favorite parts of the movie was Joaquin and the score. So I'm happy that they one those Oscars. My biggest problem with the movie is the treatment of the mentally ill. I have a lot of mental health issues and have to take medicine. And I found the parts were the movie handles that to be the worst parts of the movie. I have also never seen Taxi Driver or the King of Comedy (the only two Scorsese films I haven't seen) so those references went over my head. So I liked it, but it's not the best thing ever.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 12th 2020 at 8:47:05 AM
Speaking as someone who has worked with the mentally ill and has a few conditions himself, I think the movie subverts what could have been a usual Batman crutch of, "The Joker is crazy, so of course he's a monster" and "The Joker is insane, he's just wacky." Specifically, the movie did a surprisingly good job of establishing that Arthur the mentally ill failed comedian is not dangerous. He's a victim of violence by people who see him as an easy mark. He is radicalized by society and that rarely gets attention since so much media is about people who are destined to be bad or born that way.
And lots of people who'd never see a "serious" opinion about a downtrodden person getting radicalized, saw the Joker.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 12th 2020 at 7:20:50 AM
The score being so good is probably why there's going to be a live concert run.
My girlfriend, who suffer from depresion and only last year got medicine(she is 27 in case anyone is wondering which it can give you a hint) feel strongly identificated with arthur, specially with the idea of doubting of what is real(as sort of anecdote, we have a rough year and I near broke out with her by phone....only for her to talk to me minutes later, nearly forgetting the entire conversation and everything we talked the entire day) and use of violence.
So I guess is a sort of YMMV here.
I'm thinking of changing The Clown Rioters page from Adaptational Nice Guy & Heroism to Adaptational Personality Change because I feel like that fits better than the other two choices. I mean he still guns down Thomas & Martha Wayne, just for different reasons.
whoop. wrong thread. nvm.
Edited by Guy01 on Mar 7th 2020 at 4:12:32 AM
Wisecrack video about the joker, what do you think about it?
Well,what do they say?
Community Showcase More
How well does it match the trope?