Problematic Tropes

I've actually talked about this on other sites with a few people, there are some tropes that are incredibly narrow in their purview. The biggest example I can think of being, Ambition is Evil.

In all honesty, that should probably have some siblings or cousins to make things less problematic. And also, it should be renamed.

Instead, it should be called Evil Ambition; this would allow for related tropes to spring up more easily. To act as its counter, there should be a "good" version of the trope. I've referred to this with a few others as Heroic Ambition, which should be mostly self-explanatory in what it covers by its name. And of course, a trope for characters lacking any sort of ambition could be named No Ambition.

Point is, villains/evil characters aren't the only ones with ambitions and it's time the tropes reflect this. Seriously, there are plenty of cases where the hero is just as, if not more, ambitious as the villain. Not mention there are probably plenty of cases where heroes and/or villains actually seem to have a lack of ambition.

Edited by Armel on Jul 9th 2018 at 9:08:25 AM

First things first: if there is an actual problem with a trope, it should be taken up in Trope Repair Shop. That said, it's fine to make Trope Talk topics to raise a question if you aren't sure whether TRS will be required.

Okay, so now let's talk specifics. "Ambition" all by itself is not a trope, or at least not a discrete trope. It's certainly an attribute that may be possessed by many types of characters, but tropes tend to be more concrete and to make a statement of meaning or intent. Ambition Is Evil is specifically about a tendency in fiction to have ambition be a trait of villains, or at least a trait that leads one to commit immoral acts.

It's related to the principle that Villains Act, Heroes React: in most stories, heroes aren't trying to fundamentally change their world but rather to maintain the status quo, protect something they care about, or in some cases restore a preferred status quo ante. Villains, in turn, are fixated on a goal or a vision that they believe they are owed and/or that will bring about a substantial change in the status quo. Ambition drives these characters to break the system, defy authority, and overturn the establishment in service of a vision that they believe themselves uniquely qualified to achieve.

It is not impossible for heroes to have ambition as a driving character trait, but it's nearly always seen as something that tempts them into immoral behavior and against which they must constantly struggle. If they don't struggle but give in, then they are treated as anti-heroes. Very often, if there's a group of protagonists and one has ambition as a core trait, they're the one who does a Face–Heel Turn to drive the point home.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 9th 2018 at 9:23:13 AM

This was mostly to raise awareness and get others thinking about other tropes that might also have misleading names.

It's a noble idea but this sort of broad awareness is something we encourage in tropers as a general matter of course. There's no point in making a dedicated topic for it when Trope Repair Shop exists for this exact purpose.

I took a visit to Trope Repair a moment ago to bring up the burning issue I have with Ambition is Evil in Particular, it's still awaiting the okay from a moderator.

Please read the TRS guidelines. To get approved, a topic must demonstrate misuse caused by the title of a trope, not merely say, "I don't like it."

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 9th 2018 at 12:11:30 PM

To be honest, I'm really sure I can properly argue the point. I'll likely have to argue for a misuse of the trope or its name, and I'm not sure I'll be able to to do just that in a proper or effective manner.

The misuse has to be widespread enough for us to deem the trope as having problems.

Speaking of, Heroes Act, Villains Hinder is when heroes are okay to have ambitions. Then again, the kind of ambitions tend to be restricted for heroes; see Personal Gain Hurts.

The trope Ambition Is Evil is not saying that All Ambitions Are Evil, it's when ambition goes too far.