Darling In the FRANXX (Trigger/ A-1 Pictures collaboration)

Eeyup. It's hilarious as much as it is, sad.

Sexually frustrated, usually male, users on the internet who constantly complain about not having a significant other and usually blame other factors but themselves for that.

"Nice Guys" basically.

Eh, Nice guys usually become incels but they're separate groups. A internet Nice guy usually can keep some reputation while Incels willingly throw themselves to the bottom of the social hierarchy

An incel is the endgame of a nice guy who's been rejected too many times.

So it's very important that Ikuno was the one to fight back against the Nines' worldview here- and she did so very instinctively, too- Gender can make things complicated and messy, she says, but there's nothing wrong with things being complicated and messy. And since this argument was put in Ikuno's mouth in particular, we can see that there is difference being drawn between embracing the concept of Gender in general and embracing heteronormativity. Ikuno's instinctive anger at the suggestion that things would be better if they were simple tells us that being a girl who likes girls in important to her identity, and the narrative is most certainly on her side there.

Also, @Kazuya:

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. You're gonna have to give me more context on what you're talking about.

You said that Mitsuru was the character that did reject the "gay men are creepy" but, eh, as things go, his deal with Hiro was just anime friendship and he proved being straight.

edited 12th May '18 3:53:48 PM by KazuyaProta

He's not proved straight. He's proved bi.

I mean, what else would you call a guy who spends years being bitter about everything because a guy broke his heart and then gets into a relationship with a girl?

@incels… Well that's charming.

Ah, that's an interesting interpretation… Denying genders would be like denying the fact that she likes girls and only girls, basically?

It would be.

But also, in a genderless world, no one would care either way. And she might have a chance with Ikuno.

Albeit, the best arguments against a genderless society are for the sake of Trans people

edited 12th May '18 4:04:02 PM by KazuyaProta

2 pages?

... is it a detriment to this show that it's trying to be so upfront about its controversial commentary to the point where it's just disturbing?

edited 12th May '18 4:15:14 PM by kyun

Mhm...

Haven't watched the episode yet, but looking at the spoilers here, I'm...not sure if I want to.

I'll give it some thought, but I think I might be done with the show now.

In his defense, Mitsuru did acknowledge the whole thing as him just clinging to something minor to justify his attitude.

If he really was attracted to Hiro, he wouldn't have gotten over it so easily. So yea, I'm more inclined to just see it as one of those close but extremely homoerotic anime friendships.

I'm mostly watching for memes, but if the subject matters are unsettling you, you're probably better off dropping it.

edited 12th May '18 4:21:39 PM by BlackYakuzu94

Usually it's the girls that do those.

Fair enough. I think I'll stick around the threat thought - I'm still curious to find out what will happen.

Can someone summarize what debate was had about gender in this episode?

Yeah this episode shows that what Mitsuru was feeling was just the typical close anime friendship.

Nothing really gay or bromantic.

edited 12th May '18 4:25:35 PM by slimcoder

Well, Kokoro wants to make babies "the natural way" and says that men and women have different bodies for a reason, but Nine Alpha starts to rant about how disgusting it is and how pointless genders are. Then Ikuno get really, really mad at him and slaps him.

Also Nana is noted to be "relapsing into puberty" (whatever that means) and is thus now considered useless by Dr. Franxx, but that's not really part of the controversy.

…By the way, was it confirmed until now that Franxx was doing all this completely behind APE's back?

edited 12th May '18 4:30:23 PM by Lyendith

I see...

Well, perhaps I'll watch the episode later. That said, I do think I was primarily in this to see where the show's philosophical and political leanings were, and if this is a black and white issue here...yeah...

Essentially, the 9's (And the APE as a whole) consider standard forms of gender expression to be "disgusting" and call out P13 for acting on those traits when Kokoro expressed a desire to create a baby. 9a in particular thinks the notion of gender is outdated and uneeded.

Since they're explicitly the first male pilots to be in the position usually reserved for females, it led to a debate on the show using non-binary characters as antagonists against the more gender norm of the main characters.

edited 12th May '18 4:32:20 PM by BlackYakuzu94

Basically:

• Kokoro had an impassioned speech about how there's nothing wrong with heterosexuality
• The Nines countered that by arguing that the concept of gender- and therefore heterosexuality- is useless and only makes things messy and complicated.
• Ikuno gets mad and slap the Nines boy, saying 'so what if it does make things messy and complicated?'

See for yourself…

One thing is sure, Ikuno reacted the most violently for a reason. I'm just not sure what that reason is exactly.

edited 12th May '18 4:33:32 PM by Lyendith

I'd argue Kokoro is in the wrong cause her information comes solely from a children's book.

The 9's strike me as more educated chaps who know what their talking about....... even if their education came from papa.

edited 12th May '18 4:34:58 PM by slimcoder

Man. If you think that what we've gotten is a 'typical close anime friendship'... I suggest you re-examine whatever friendships in other shows you're thinking about. There's really nothing heterosexual about the way Mitsuru thinks about Hiro.

Given the world they live in, I don't get how that negates her point of wanting to make children naturally when their society is trying to snuff out any form of individuality and basic human traits.

Beyond the fact he held a grudge, what suggests it's homosexual?

edited 12th May '18 4:39:18 PM by BlackYakuzu94

Well I'm liking the 9's better than Kokoro, what can I say.

I don't know, it just doesn't feel that way, pulse he moves on to a girl soooo........

Exactly.

edited 12th May '18 4:40:33 PM by slimcoder

It's not so much he moves on to a girl, but rather that he himself said that he mostly just clung to a minor childhood promise to justify his grudge because otherwise, he would have gone through that life threatening procedure for nothing.

He got over it and realized how minor it was, hence why he got over his sickness and they rekindled their friendship soon after.

If he was truly attracted to Hiro, he'd be way more awkward and emotional about him especially after making up.

That's it really.

Look at his interactions with Kokoro, its very awkward & he's clearly uncomfortable around her, not knowing how to talk to her.

With Hiro its like "Naw fam, we good. We homies, its no big whoop (fist bump)." in comparison.