Fate/Grand Order

Isn't it Ibaragin's fault that Shuten's stuck in the form she's summoned in?

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.

I don't remember seeing anything about that in her profile. Maybe Raikou, Ibaraki or Kintoki says something about it in their My Room lines? But I don't have any of them.

As far as I know, Shuten is in her adult form, especially since she has direct experience with Raikou, who killed her.

It's been fun.

It's in Rashoumon, I think. Need to re-read it.

Yup, just finished reading through Rashomon. Ibaraki absorbed some of Shuten's powers through the Grail wine, causing her to take on the form of a young girl, and apparently since the wine they drank was from a Grail, Ibraraki's wish that got twisted (her wish was to go on a rampage with Shuten; the Grail twisted it so that she'd go on a rampage with Shuten's powers) was enough to warp Shuten's Spirit Graph such that the latter still gets summoned in her weakened loli form instead of an adult woman. Even Golden was surprised at seeing Shuten's form, so it clearly isn't what he's used to seeing.

Wait, does that mean the Ibaraki we summon has her Saint Graph warped in that she's actually stronger than she should actually be?

Edited by ITNW1989 on Oct 21st 2018 at 5:22:06 AM

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.

Actually, none of the onis are as powerful as they could be because they aren't in their real, hulked-out form, I believe. So even if Shuten didn't have her power drained, she still wouldn't be as powerful as her legend implies.

Omega: Of fuckin' course he does!

Never change, Shirou.

Chris: Everyone getting their favorites and here I am, Kiritsugu-less .

Arha: You need to stop caring so much about gameplay, my dude. Follow your heart, not your head.

Edited by HailMuffins on Oct 21st 2018 at 9:54:51 AM

I mean, that applies to practically every Servant Chaldea summons, if only because of the prana requirements. The way Shuten reacted to her appearance, though, makes it seem we should at least, in theory, have been able to summon a stronger form of hers if not for her and Ibaraki's antics with the Grail during Rashomon, even if it wouldn't be at her strongest. None of the Servants we summon are at their strongest.

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.

No Servant ever summoned in general is at their strongest, really, the summoning system being a Power Limiter in general.

I think that applies to Earth and Sky Servants, but Human and especially Star Servants are much stronger as Servants than as living people.

They're all stronger, yes, but even folks like Blackbeard are accurately described as superhuman or legendary - they have the weight of hundreds of years of human belief behind them.

It's been fun.

While how strong Servants are compared to how they were in life, there is a difference between like "Siegfried can't spam Balmung as well since he doesn't have a Dragon Core" and like "Rama is actively gimping himself in what class he is summoned to". Shuten falls into the latter in the sense that there is clearly a different version of her, but chances are we will never see the "proper" Shuten.

Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!

Yeah, there are a number of Servants that gimp themselves - like Nero, for instance, who originally went with Saber because the entire Cavalry set is a little too close to the Beast of Revelation for her liking.

It's been fun.

It occurred to me that Tomoe's fight against what's-his-name might have a chance of appearing in the Babylonia anime and now I really hope they at least give her an onscreen cameo or something.

---

Iskandar and Jing Ke being drinking buddies at Shuten's drinking party during Medb's second interlude was neat

As I gather, (almost?) all Heroic Spirits are too powerful for modern mages to sustain. Servant container nerfs them a bit so Servants are usually weaker than their original Heroic Spirit versions. Spirits for example are not shackled by class limitations and can bear all their abilities and weapons at once. At least I think so.

Yeah, you take a tiny bit of the Throne copy of the Servant and pour them into a vessel shaped and limited by the Class system, which can also compel them to act in certain ways or draw on specific aspects of their legends (see: Berserker Vlad). But I think for a Heroic Spirit to manifest fully they would need to be a Counter Guardian or something?

Or apparently something like that happens in CCC and Hakuno's chosen Servant manifests in Origin Form or something, but that's secondhand information from a friend.

^^Wait, Tomoe fights someone in Babylonia?

Also, Shuten is showing up quite a lot in the latest batch of Interludes. Makes me wonder if they're gonna have something big planned for Oniland that isn't just the usual silly seasonal stuff.

Edited by RedSavant on Oct 21st 2018 at 1:32:16 PM

It's been fun.

And what exactly is the case for Grand Servants? Are they at their original peak, or are they empowered further by virtue of being in a Grand class?

Edit:Also, I've heard that there can only be one candidate from each age for a Grand class. Is that true, or is it just a theory?

Edited by Kakuzan on Oct 21st 2018 at 1:36:23 PM

Don't catch you slippin' now.

The latter. The Grand Servant vessel gives the user a massive power boost, enough to match the Beasts in a straight fight.

From what I know of the game, both Gilgamesh and Karna are the actual Heroic Spirits in CCC, because they are so powerful they weren't supposed to be summoned in the Moon Cell Holy Grail War at all, and their data was throw into the quarentine zone AKA the Far Side. Hakuno only menages to summon Gil because they are inside the area.

Also, yeah, Tomoe takes down a bigass monster via Heroic Sacrifice. Also, Amakusa and Fuuma, I think, both are killed by Jaguarman.

Edited by HailMuffins on Oct 21st 2018 at 2:37:38 PM

In Gil's exposition dump, he explains how he summoned Leonidas, Merlin, Ushiwakamaru, Benkei, Ibaraki, Tomoe Gozen, Kotaro, and Amakusa, but last two died to Jaguar Man, Tomoe died fighting against one of Tiamat's monsters, and Ibaraki ran away.

Also imo it makes Gil look like a huge weeb especially because seriously why would you go for Amakusa of all people in a fight against a giant horde of monsters that are trying to overrun Uruk

Edited by Nouct on Oct 21st 2018 at 10:38:40 AM

Wonder why he summoned so many Japanese Servants.

Don't catch you slippin' now.

It's Fanon

My guess is that, as they are from a foreign, distant land, there's little risk of Tiamat having some manner of Authority over them, like the Greek Gods over Heracles and Romulus over the Romans. Most of them are of the Man attribute, even.

Leonidas is obvious, he's the most famous You Shall Not Pass! dude in history.

Edit: Also, it's funny how they don't pair up Jing Ke with the onis more often, they're all giant alcoholics.

Edited by HailMuffins on Oct 21st 2018 at 2:51:21 PM

I don't think a Servant can manifest as their 100% complete legend. Lancelot can't both be the greatest knight and a mad dog. Gilgamesh can't be a wise king, a flirty shota and an arrogant young prick.

Red: Offscreen before you get there. She killed one of Tiamat's generals by simply rushing him and ripping his head off, then she died.

Hail: Naw, a Grand still seems pretty inferior to a Beast. Even nerfed Tiamat was wayyyy above King Hassan. And nah, Karna is a Lancer, Jinako is just dumb and calls him Launcher.

Aha, I see. Man, really looking forward to the Babylonia anime so I can see the story properly. >.> Granted, I also didn't have to rush quite as much as I did since I caught up with Lostbelt 2 rather handily, but if I'd been reading it all on my own it would have taken for goddamn ever.

^That's my girl. If there was a Servant Class for 'run in and fuck someone's neck vertebrae', she would be it.

And yeah, Grand Servants presumably have unique power bonuses, but even Hassan as the Grand Assassin couldn't kill a self-sealed, dogpiled Tiamat. Maybe he could have, but in the end he didn't.

Edited by RedSavant on Oct 21st 2018 at 1:49:11 PM

It's been fun.

Arha: Could've sworn, but Gil really doesn't have a class in-game, and I remember reading in the wiki that was the reason why.

Makes sense, though: powerful he may be, Karna is still ridicously mana intensive, while I don't remember Gil ever being all that hard to mantain relative to his strength.

Makes sense the Grands are weaker than Beasts, though: not a lot of drama can be mined out of "Grand Servant rushes in, saves the day, everyone pisses off for shawarmas".

Edited by HailMuffins on Oct 21st 2018 at 2:59:12 PM

But, boy, does that sound like a nice Cooking with Emiya scenario.

In the prologue, he claims he has no Class, but so far I'm taking it as only his dumb boasting.