War of Rights - a Civil War FPS

Well, people were asking about different eras for a military shooter - War of Rights is a Civil War military FPS, and aiming for extreme realism, so, yeah, gotta stuff those long rifles before firing. And bayonets.

I'm of two minds on this.

I mean, on one step, it's cool to see another historical period than WW 2 / Present / Future

BBBBUUUUT. I wonder who good it'll be. Slow reloading, very inaccurate guns don't make for fun gameplay. There's a reason back then standing in line and shooting at one another was a favored tactic.

Like, even the footage they have, it looks NICE, but not FUN.

Also, I find it funny that a game aiming for REALISM! still has the Instant Death Bullet. You'd think that'd be the first thing to go no?

edited 15th Oct '15 3:09:07 PM by CobraPrime

However, then you have to rush with bayonets.

This strikes me as a sort of Civil War version of the first Planetside.

"Also, I find it funny that a game aiming for REALISM! still has the Instant Death Bullet."

Well, the one we see get hit is in the head. So, yeah.

Also, the Minié bullet was fucking nasty. And who said they're dead. Most of the Civil War wounded bled out painfully on the field. I could have sworn I heard the moans of people on the ground.

As for "fun" - the people who back this are into this niche. This isn't intended as a Call of Duty sized game. Just a modest indie game using Cryengine. It's a good sign they've been working on this for 3 years before launching the Kick.

edited 15th Oct '15 3:15:56 PM by AnotherGuy

No the guy shot by a revolver is shot in the guts and instantly drops dead.

Also I question having the camera looking down into the ammo pouch and back up with every reload. That's going to be both disorienting and a massive source of motion sickness for those sensitive to that stuff.

edited 15th Oct '15 3:36:25 PM by CobraPrime

We don't know that he's dead, just taken down.

He's just resting.

Colour me interested and hopeful, though I'd frankly be a bit surprised if the Kickstarter really works.

Also vaguely worried the Confederate flag kerfuffle could kick up again, but hopefully we're past that.

edited 15th Oct '15 4:48:22 PM by VutherA

x5 actually the guns were far more accurate than their 2 century old tactics led them to believe. Civil War guns could hit things that they were aimed at.

edited 15th Oct '15 4:51:54 PM by Memers

Yeah, just like World War 1, military science had yet to understand the effects of current technology. Or supposedly, it's a complex topic.

^ Soldier psychology too. Just plopping someone in a uniform with a gun a good marksman does not make.

I just decided to go for "complex!", but it obviously can't fool the already-knowledgeable.

Eh it is a bit more nuanced then that. It was a mix of things about the weapons and tactics. However that is a topic for the history thread or a dedicated American Civil War thread.

I am wondering if the weapons will have their actual real life long range for area targets. Some of the musket rifles could hit out to 1000 yds or more when fired at a general area. Point targets were 300-500yds. If they aim for realism I would like to see those engagement ranges in use.

They probably will be, though for realism's sake it should also be nearly impossible to see anything at that range, let alone hit it. Red Orchestra 2 had dialing up to 1000m on their rifles for its own sake, one would just never actually use it .

If they have realistic distance scaling and visibility you can. The human eye can see quite well at 500 yards in good weather conditions. You don't need the highest power sniper scopes just to see that far.

Hell Tuffel here could teach you how to shoot 500 yards with iron sights.

Well, it's certainly possible, but in actual combat, definitely improbable. That's why militaries gave up on standard-issue long rifles, right?

Also, joined in for 5 pounds for the game. If it happens, I'm certainly going to want to play it, I figured.

edited 15th Oct '15 6:33:07 PM by VutherA

Ha! I called it! I knew there'd be something from this time period eventually. Beyond Mount and Blade mods that also do nicely with it. But he said players. That makes me think MMO and no no no.

Hmmmm, I'm pretty sure player-count per match is going to be pretty high myself. It'll be difficult to not make your gun jamming and getting you killed not feel game-shattering unless there's a ton of other players able to keep it going too. Not to mention they're going for historical accuracy in a time where units attacked in massed brigades, so as many players as possible would make sense.

Of course, making all of these players act like actual American Civil War soldiers is...not guaranteed. Indeed, my immediate assumption was that all players would be officers commanding brigades to fix that issue, but that is not going to be the case.

A good part of combat during the Civil War era involved swords and bayonets, mind you. So the range will probably remain the same since at some point you have to level your rifle and charge with the pointy thing on the end of it.

I recalled reading a claim preliminary skirmisher and artillery fire would have put a lot of smoke on the battlefield before the line infantry were expected to fight and made visibility unlikely for them. Wonder if that'll happen too and leave most combat to being rather close for them.

edited 15th Oct '15 7:03:23 PM by VutherA

Tom: We have covered this in other threads before that isn't really an accurate statement.

Human visual acuity drops off sharply between 300-400yds this is why past that range optics are preferred. Details of even a human sized target in the open drops off very sharply by 500yds. Past that it rapidly gets worse. This is partly why early optics started showing up just before and during the American Civil War as dedicated marksman devices mounted to weapons. This is also why various groups like scouts, commanders, and others had field glasses of various types.

This is for a human sized object in the open, clear sky, no excessive light reflection, no smoke or other visual obstructions, or camouflage. Basically under the utmost ideal conditions which are a rarity. You start adding in things like even standing in waist high brush, grass, or wheat and single target gets notably harder to see. Standing with a stand of trees to your back makes you even harder to see because of natural blending standing just inside the tree line makes it extraordinarily difficult to spot. Add in effects from smoke and weather on the battlefield accurate visual ranges can drop sharply.

You can spot something moving at longer ranges but your not going to get accurate details. Targets though like masses of men moving, formation or lose groups, artillery trains, and even a single man on horse back are a lot easier to see at a distance.

Since it's MMO, I'm passing. I do like that they're doing this, but I'm not interested in the kind of dedicated multiplayer it would take to play it right. You might also change the title a bit to make the massively multiplayer bit clear to people like me who came in hoping for a singleplayer campaign.

As for tactics, the ones of that era were there for a reason. Guns were still too slow to just have isolated units able to take out cavalry. Reloading dictated massed numbers of troops. There were probably repeaters in addition to gatling guns during that time period, but not in the numbers either army would have needed.

Either everyone's going to be scrambling for a limited repeater supply, or the mechanics will dictate tactics and after an initial rush of Civil War "buffs" who want to solo it like any other game, things will probably level back out to standard tactics.

Of course, if Creative Assembly can make a Roman century march in formation in Spartan Total Warrior, surely these guys could make bots that act like actual Civil War soldiers.

Also: All the images we got were pre-Alpha stage. It's possible they'll replace the instant fall mechanic with a detailed subsystem damage one that lets you fight on in a limited capacity until enough bullets hit you or hit you in the right places to finish you off. Of course, that might be wasted if enough players accept "Instant fall, please respawn" as an Acceptable Break from Reality and complain about the alternative.

It's not an MMO. It's just a persistent world.

Being persistent doesn't make it an MMO. MMO's can have persistent worlds.

Ah. Okay, my mistake. Doesn't change anything but the title stuff, but it was a mistake.

Few days left, but they almost got it.

Funded.