Nationalism in Anime

Maneiro, espero encontrá-los.

Mas, por enquanto, let's go back to english to not alienate the other tropers.

A japanese game that I've been playing. Valkyria Chronicles.

A more subsided (rated teen) take on the World War 2. While Gallia fights mostly, the empire (the main agressor) it also has to protect itself against the federation. Basically, "a country has to rely on itself" is one of the messages.

Interesting. I've been thinking about that one too (not the least because I lost my save file 3 times in just as many days, give or take ).

On one hand, Gallia's policy of isolationism and neutrality does kind of make me wonder if they can come off as xenophobic - not necessarily in a dehumanizing sort of way, but in a way that makes me wonder if they care about interacting with other countries at all - at least in the first game, their interactions with foreigners are decidedly negative.

On the other hand, Faldio's statement of how the Federation would conquer Gallia just as the Empire would did get me thinking. History is full of big fish swallowing up little fish to better compete with other big fish - while the game is more analogous to World War II, something like that reminds me more of the Cold War.

If they ever did more with this series (and brought it to Western shores), I might be interested in seeing a story with the Federation. There's only so much you can do with a single country - think of what you could do with a multinational, nominally heroic but fairly shady setting!

Well, as you have said, the empire wants to crush you in the front with a tank and the federation wants to stab you in the back. While comerce and mutual alliances may be and have been benefitial through history, there are a lot of good reasons to maintain a degree of independence:

-To be in charge of your destiny. Who guarantees that the international comitees have your nation's well being as their own plan? As you have said, in the cold war, both USSR and USA have been a destructive presence to other countries (feel free to discuss which was worse), other powers are not exempt of doing this.

-Results that sink all. If you tie a stable economy to an incompetent one... Greece and the euro union. Also, it may even not be a matter of competence. You may just have two incompatible systems that favors one in detriment of another. The chinese are crushing foreign jobs.

-If you close the borders you won't get the good. If you open them, you will get the good and the people who the good were running from. decide, well, I hope he knows what is the best for you and the fact that his house is further afar doesn't make him use double standards.If you try to filter, you risk results A and B, but you may get C where you get the best and bar the worse. If you let your neighboor decide for you, I hope he doesn't apply double standards or actually knows what he is doing.

-Why the hell should a guy, that doesn't know your country well, dictate it? New opinions and sugestions are apreciated, but the one who decides how to manage the house is the owner.

Edit: Sorry for the save files.

edited 15th Sep '15 11:12:50 AM by grahav

It's fine. I think I just need a break for a while, then I'll come back to it.

Seriously, though, think about it: a multi-national squad put together as an experiment, who work to overcome their differences and work together as a team, while having to deal with both the enemy and government scheming.

I'm picturing them as kind of like the Howling Commandoes, but with more girls.

So, like ONU's blue helmets?

Can be a good story.

One thing that I would like too see though, is how to react to differences. In happy-go-lucky stories differences are celebrated because in the end they are different good qualities. What about beliefs? When beliefs can stand side by side, when they can be tolerated (meaning you don't like it, but you can live with it) and when they are incompatible (like nazis and gypsies)?

This video is about tolerance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34qVpPKmNvA

The guys in the video criticize and hate each other political views and debate it non stop but recognize each other's right to it.

Like me and my sister.

And on the matter of prejudice. I still have to finish the game, I think I am on the half of it, but Valkyria Chronicles, so far, has a rather optimistic and naive take on prejudice. The Darcsen are hated. 'Kay. But then the darcsen girl and guy that I met are the nicest, wisest people of the world. It is like: "Oooohh. You weren't devils, you were angels actually. My bad." Kind of cheating. What if the opressed culture had points that the racist guy was right about, or at least still didn't like (you know like the imperfect humans everybody is) BUT he ends recognizing that asking for extermination or being a casual jerk to them is wrong?

edited 15th Sep '15 8:49:04 PM by grahav

Let there be a necro.

I have a problem with the opening narration of The Irregular At Magic High School. It has a trace of nationalism in it, but my biggest problem is how it is a borderline Critical Research Failure on international politics.

So here is the world map of the setting.◊ What's wrong with that?

China has grown powerful enough to take over Korea, one of America's key allies as well as 7th most militaristically powerful nation on Earth. It has also managed to grown powerful enough to take over parts of Russia, the second most powerful nation on Earth. In fact, in this seting Russia is EVEN stronger now, seeing how it over took over more territories in Eastern Europe (this story was written before the Crimean Crisis).

And despite all this, Japan is somehow managing to stay independent.

Oh sure, there is magic involved...except in this setting, magic didn't just appear out from outer sky or other dimensions, but rather a scientific discovery and soon application.

I mean, Hell, the idea of America NOT growing a massive rage boner and soon outrunning every nation on Earth in terms of such a powerful weapon technology? I'm wondering if Japanese newspaper has no international news section.

…West EU is in the East and East EU on the West.

so i know i'm several pages late to the discussion about Bokurano, but as far as i remember (when discussing the manga), most of the digs at america are just that, digs. mentions of them in a negative light at certain points, but this is not really an important part of what Bokurano is. there isn't really any significant japanese nationalism that i can think of.

x3

That reminds me of those amateurish alternate history videos of WWII where Nazi Germany wins over Europe... and Switzerland is still left alone.

To be fair, that map seems to be echoing the historical precedent of Japan being free from Chinese domination early on, but the map still seems to be composed of weird geopolitical constructions and English.

edited 1st Oct '15 10:39:56 PM by Trivialis

One of the animes I enjoy in how it treats nationalism is Ghost In The Shell Stand Alone Complex. On one hand, the world outside of Japan seems to suck. On the other hand, we are shown a (rather actual) migrant issue in S2 where they are treated sympathetically, or at least not as evil invaders. The bad guy is even a right-wing nut even though in grand GITS fashion it is a bit more complicated than that.

Considering the low birth rates, nuclear fallout still spreading and an issue, economic conditions getting worse (Yen value has been dropping consistently), it's adorable how japan keep thinking it will rise above other nations when they go down the drain. But, I suppose that much of shilling your own nation should be tolerated.

"Adorable" seems rather condescending. It's not like other countries aren't capable of similar arrogance.

edited 2nd Oct '15 12:32:09 PM by KarkatTheDalek

???

I call out nationalistic arrogance wherever I see it (God knows how many times how often I've done that Michael Bay movies and Call of Duty series), and this is an anime thread so I'm calling out ones from Japanese creators.

Actually, the yen has been kept weak on purpose because it gives Japan trade benefits. Japan has a lot of problems, including economically, but they're not doing terribly on that front compared to the rest of the world. Their crazy work ethic and near-religious corporate stagnation are causing huge problems for their individual workers, but it definitely keeps the economy as a whole pretty stable.

I could argue on that regards, but seeing this isn't an OTC thread, it would be off-topic so maybe some other place.

Anyhow, The Irregular At Magic High School also includes what is apparently reverse-Rape of Nanjing and Japan nuking parts of China. That's pretty bad.

And don't forget that every Chinese person in Japan is a spy. And of course the pinnacle of magic research takes place at high school. Yep.

Reminds me of the good times I spent reading certain blog posts on Mahouka.

Okay, what is that blog? Because it's absolutely hilarious AND raises good points.

@dRoy: Fair. I just wasn't a fan of your choice of words.

As long as it isn't a personal attack, in case of which I deserve a mod intervention, I frankly don't care and it's irrelevant to this thread.

I said this before in the earlier posts, but I watched the First Gundam, and it was pretty good at speaking against nationalism and war in general, at least from what I've seen.

Frankly, if you ask me, I think most anime has far too little reservation against children fighting in a war. Despite its accusation of being nationalistic, I actually appreciated how Attack on Titan portrayed teenagers being sent off to fight war as something very much bleak and unreasonable attitude of superior officers are heavily criticized. Shame about Dot Pixis, but eh.