Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

Yeah, they are. Family and friends are a socially acceptable blind spot. You're not expected to be utterly rational and dispassionate about your family — it's why surgeons can't operate on their children. The emotional cost is just too high. And that's fine, those connections are what make us human. I wouldn't want to live in a world without them, and I don't think stories would be all that interesting without those kinds of complications.

We don't, and now Rey likely doesn't believe it's possible either.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 3rd 2018 at 3:58:39 AM

As I recall, this whole move for Kylo being redeemed got its start in the same breath the move for Rey being Luke's daughter came from: fixation on the Skywalker bloodline, and the belief that they have to be a line of heroes.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 3rd 2018 at 2:07:54 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

The Skywalker family flops between great heroes and villians. One example being high on death sticks and haunted by his ancestors.

Kylo is pretty much a poor version of Jacen Solo to some degree. Which if I remember correctly there was quite a bit of discussion regarding if he redeemed himself also.

"When I offered to make Norea my third back-up girlfriend she just glared at me and started throwing things at me.." Renee Costa

I can't recall if anyone here wanted Ren redeemed when The Force Awakens came out, but I'd have no problem believing he'd have any kind of support on various other media outlets.

Yeah. Ren has proven twice now that he is completely committed to the Dark Side. Given two opportunities to back away from the First Order and leave Snoke, and instead chose to follow the Rule of Two, and kill his master when he thought he had nothing else to teach him. Not to mention kill his father and almost kill his mother, stopped only by a moment of hesitation.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.

I would've preferred they just had Jacen and Jaina, but they didn't, so we're making do.

And I'm sure people did expect Kylo to be redeemed by the end of the trilogy in TFA. I did. I didn't want them to do it, but they'd made a movie that was so close to ANH and people did seem to be eating it up, so I could certainly have seen the safer play being to go on remaking the OT beat for beat.

Luke's redemption of Vader was a long shot and he knew it, his goal was more about distracting them so they would be unable to respond properly to the actual Battle of Endor "Soon, all of us will be dead." Rey's attempt to redeem Kylo Ren was more of a "It worked in a previous movie, it must be a trend in this franchise" sort of thing. It certainly wasn't because she had a long standing connection to him or a well thought-out plan on how to do it.

Going back a few pages, the study on online trolls probably needs to be clarified a bit more. A lot of articles are running with a "50% of TLJ haters are Russian trolls" without actually discussing the content. Foremost the contents of the study are A) exclusively on Tweets to Rian Johnson, B) only about a 1,000 tweets, C) manually sifted through to assess the content of the tweets. The study was also 35 pages, which I imagine few people actually read in its entirety. I found this article and read enough of the actual study to confirm what it said.

The reality was that they found that from 967 tweets, 206 expressed overtly negative attitudes toward the film and/or director (ie the twitter account in question). Of those, 11 were bots, 61 had a clear political agenda, and 33 appeared to be trolls. Of the 33 trolls, 16 had characteristics similar to Russian trolls during the 2016 election, which is where the 50% claim came from. Rian Johnson has said that seems about right, which is because it was his account (right or wrong, he has also said a few things that would incite more backlash against him such as mocking online critics). The author of the study even said it was very limited in scope and potential answers. It was not an assessment of all of Twitter, let alone social media.

It's an interesting topic but really only tangentially related to the actual movie. Of course, anyone trying to use that to shame those with negative opinions of TLJ is either deliberately or ignorantly using trolling tactics of their own.

Nobody is saying that he should be redeemed now, after he's rejected redemption twice. Only that it's understandable why Rey would want to try.

I disagree, Ventress was almost completely redeemed in the end.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 3rd 2018 at 2:27:36 AM

She shouldn’t really have tried when she saw him kill his own father.

She didn’t get redeemed because of someone reaching out to her.

It was through her own personal journey brought on by a chain of fantastic events & her learning from them.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Rey also saw a prophetic vision of Kylo killing Snoke. Seemed fair to her that doing that meant he was rejecting the Dark Side. She just didn’t have enough context to realize that wasn’t necessarily true.

Okay, now you're just moving your own goalposts.

Well that actually was my original point even if I didn’t write it well.

Kylo got people to commit a lot more effort in trying to redeem him than the others did.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Not because the movie thinks he deserves it. He's just lucky enough to have had a family and friends that care about him when so many others don't — and that's what makes him so eminently hateable, that he keeps smacking away the proffered hand of love and friendship, time and time again.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 3rd 2018 at 3:44:22 AM

Just an fyi, Rian thought that the film he shot still leaves Kylo as redeemable and, in fact, thinks Vader was a lot less redeemable than Kylo currently is.

Please.

Where does he say that?

You already said that. Same response: twenty years of genocide on a galactic scale is worse than fewer years on a smaller scale. Kylo Ren is more redeemable than Vader, but that doesn't mean he's going to be redeemed if he's not willing to do the things it takes to earn it.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 3rd 2018 at 5:51:13 AM

Literally first time I have brought that up. Not interested in playing Judge over Vader and Kylo, though I could see merits to either argument.

Edited by TheDeadMansLife on Oct 3rd 2018 at 4:52:17 AM

Please.

Uh-huh. You've been on this thread long enough to see it said, multiple times.

Been here for two and a half weeks. First time this has come up. Also this is beginning to feel like an inquisition. Doth I need to get a writ of innocence from the pastor?

EDIT: Turns out it is closer to a month and a half. Though heavy posting has really only picked up in the last three.

Edited by TheDeadMansLife on Oct 3rd 2018 at 4:59:05 AM

Please.

Everyone is redeemable...as long as you keep the receipt.

As long you let the wookie win anything is possible

New theme music also a box

“Cowboys and Aliens 2” confirmed. (Just kidding.)

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Oct 3rd 2018 at 5:14:21 AM

Edge of the Empire after the fall of the Empire, smugglers and bounty hunters and outlaw techs, I'm on board.

So we will get to see the lawlessness of the toothless New Republic... at least they are thinking about things like that.

Alright this should be interesting.

The wording makes it seem like its about another Fett.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."