My perspective on English dubs

I've yet to see any flames here, though.

We're also not talking about dubs being bad, we're talking about English dubs tend to distinguish themselves from the original voices. This has nothing to do with your regular "Sub vs. Dub" debates. This is actually something new for once, which you would have noticed if you read the whole thread.

I'm going to add that there are quite a few Latin American countries that don't dub live action, either (I know Venezuela doesn't), so you definitely shouldn't generalize.

Also, I know it's easy to be critical of those countries that dub live action (Portugal doesn't do it, and we often make fun of the Spanish for doing it), but please respect the fact that they hear dubbing and differing interpretations more frequently. Maybe they're pre-disposed or biased towards the choice of dubbing, but that doesn't mean it's an invalid opinion.

Finally, I'm pretty sure I've seen German and Chinese films dubbed in American English, too.

Regarding the main topic, I've been rewatching the Portuguese dub of Rurouni Kenshin, and I love the different interpretations they give to certain characters (Shishio's voice is much raspier, as if he had a burned throat. Sanosuke is louder in general. A more interesting case is Saitou, who is very blunt and harsh in the original, and often described as "unpleasant" or "rude" because of it. Since that cultural aspect doesn't work as well here, they gave him a very sarcastic, condescending and arrogant tone to everything he says. It's very different from his original voice, but it works well).

So, in general, I'm accepting of dubs and alterations, as long as they aren't condescending towards their audience (like the clumsy attempts by 4Kids at hiding blood and guns). I'm ambivalent in changing stuff like food, as I think it's simple enough to call something a "rice cake" or a "rice ball" without pretending it's something it's clearly not, but there are instances where it works (like that time a Japanese egg-based dish was called a "Mini-Tortilla". It did look like one, so sure).

edited 10th Jul '15 3:38:50 AM by JonnasN

Whoops. Oh well. Good to know you're not denying the other quote, though. Saves me linking to every single one of your posts.

Repeat it all you want. Doesn't really change what I've seen you post in here.

Live action dubs is another a topic for another day and something that I cannot approve of no matter what. Of course, the invalid opinion part was sarcasm interpreted literally.

As for your argument, I don't know about the dub because I haven't ever heard it so I can't speak about it. But I'm mainly just coming up with a theory why most people dislike the dubs, I hypothesize it being because the English voice actors almost never attempt to retain the spirit of original ones.

Sometimes it works, like my country's dub of Avatar: The Last Airbender where it's much less modernized and the children's voices don't offend your ears. Cultural pronunciations of the names rather than the Americanized pronunciations. But it's rare and it's also just a theory I'm suggesting and from the looks of it, there's a strong possibility that it's somewhat confirmed in my book.

And I also agree about the "Jelly-filled donuts that looks very much like rice balls!" alteration. It's stupid, luckily our country's dub just change the audio and not the images (unless necessary.)

edited 10th Jul '15 4:03:47 AM by One_Island

But you haven't seen anything. You literally replied just after reading the title.

You wouldn't be able to even if you tried. Also you don't seem to understand you've yet to prove your point. You claimed English, but cite Spanish and yet that somehow suffices your point about the English... That makes no sense.

edited 10th Jul '15 4:07:26 AM by One_Island

And also your posts. You know, the ones where you paint yourself as higher than everyone else, especially from the second page onwards?

I think I've been here long enough to know how to link to posts, thanks.

Right. Well, here's what I said in my last post:

Now, the first part of this sentence would imply that I acknowledge a mistake was made. Given the ambiguous wording of your statement, it was unclear you were talking about another language's dubbing.

The rest of the sentence points out, however, you don't deny what I said anyway.

For the last time:

And if that's not enough, here's a link. You can deny hard evidence all you want, it's not gonna go away.

edited 10th Jul '15 4:59:41 AM by PhysicalStamina

To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."

English dubs tend to not be as well received, not because they can't capture the spirit (or voices) of the original, but because many do it badly. If they change things well, there is very little disapproval.

Sure, some dubs may be criticised for changing things entirely, but there are fans of the English dub of Dragon Ball Z to this day (that's a dub that changed the tone of the original, what with having a different soundtrack, and the characters grunting more, having more testosterone in general). It's when the new things are cringe-worthy that people start complaining.

Meanwhile, staying too close to the original can also be a trap. What Japanese people perceive as "polite" can be "rude" in another culture, and vice-versa, so changes to the script, acting or both are understandable.

Also, I should note: regardless of any change, some people will complain. Even if the changes were reasonable, there are those who'll always prefer the original.

I didn't act higher than everyone else. I got more confrontational because I perceived my replies to become that as well.

Also why do you mind me (allegedly) being condescending when you're hypocritically guilty of the same thing? Like this one:

You're clearly being more cheeky here than I am or ever was.

Firstly, another example of you acting arrogant. Secondly, I know full well of the first part of the sentence. Also it cannot get more clear than this: My perspective on English dubs - it's the title! Also, no, you clearly said that I was ***** on the English dubs and used examples of me **** Spanish dubs. What about checking what you said? You've yet to prove this straw man claim of yours.

As for the second part of your sentence, that's right. That's what you said. However, you said more than that. You also said: "Saves me linking to every single one of your posts."

Given the ambiguous wording of your statement, it was unclear whether you were still going on about me ever said anything against English dubs, there were only two quotes of me saying something ill about Spanish dubs, so you saying "saves me to link every quote" (presumably of me badmouthing dub), you either thought I made more statements against the Spanish dubs (which, I think, I did not) or you were referencing to, you know, the English dubs - the point of this thread. Hence, I am not wrong for assuming here unlike you judging.

Confusion was expected.

edited 10th Jul '15 5:39:51 AM by One_Island

I don't really find any problem with dubs. I actually find the dubs to be quite funny and cheesy at times.

"THIS SON OF A BITCH TOOK OVER HIS BODAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!"

The times of bad dubs have long passed us. Yes, there's some poor acting in some dubs and even some bad pronunciation of names.

"YU-SHI-OOOOOOH!!!"

But even so, Animes nowadays know better than to sugarcoat death and get subpar actors. Sometimes the reason why I think people hate dubs is because they're mentally scarred by 4kids, which, fun fact, let Faust VIII uncensored among other things.

@Physical Stamina, that's miscommunication.

I was talking directly about the Arabic Spongebob dub. "Should more of less have the same voice" was me talking about the Arabic dubber of Spongebob should more or less have the same voice similar to the American one. "Should" wasn't used synonymously for "must," by the way.

The whole "point" there that was proven was Spongebob's Arabic dub being similar to the American one. Even though the acting is different (since Arabic acting is different from Western acting), the voice was still the same. That's all. You read too much into that minor detail which was specifically centered on Spongebob and not used as an example for a general point.

It was also 2:00 at night when I wrote that, I think. Hence I didn't bother with the grammatical. It should be edited as:

Or something like that to make it much more clear or whatnot/whatever.

The last part was much more immaterial and breezy than you thought of it.

edited 10th Jul '15 5:55:18 AM by One_Island

This conversation would be much easier if OP didn"'t decide his arguments retroactively mean something different and that he's not being condescending because he said he isn't.

No, no, see, even after explaining the OP's point I don't think people here are actually understanding it. And as an American I can understand that, since to us it sounds really freakin' weird.

It's not about the performance. It's not about tone or inflection or emotion or intent or character understanding or dubbing changes or anything like that. The OP's point is literally "If this character is voiced by Norio Wakamoto, then an American actor voicing that character should sound like Norio Wakamoto speaking fluent English. And a Spanish actor should sound like Norio Wakamoto speaking Spanish. And a German actor should sound like Norio Wakamoto speaking German. And so on, and so on."

edited 10th Jul '15 6:19:30 AM by Watchtower

Edit: ed.

That's my point. It's how it's done in my country and my 2 cents on this whole sub vs. dub war.

edited 10th Jul '15 6:24:52 AM by One_Island

Fine, that's how it's done in your country, that's their way of dubbing. It is not ours most of the time, however, and it doesn't have to be. Period.

To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."

No one said it is "your" way of doing it. Also it's just your opinion as well. You're making yourself look pompous by writing in that stye as if you're stating a fact here. I could say the same: Fine. Your opinion about it doesn't have to be.

I share the sentiment that it does for the most of the time.

That's the step closer to civil conversation. By adding the "Period" makes it look like you're trying to conclude a debate or something, which I regard to be pompous of you.

You take things too seriously here or at least think you're the only one right and everyone disagreeing have no right to or are in the wrong.

edited 10th Jul '15 7:38:50 AM by One_Island

Here's the thing: your OP clearly states "I think English dubs fail because they try to spin something new". Now, what you really meant to say was "I think English dubs fail because the voices don't sound the same", which is a very different point, as I've previously pointed out and as you've probably seen. But more generally, that statement seems to be inviting a discussion/debate, and yet you hold strongly to "It's just my opinion." The more I read this thread, the more is seems like you never wanted anything more than a mic-drop.

So here's my question: Why did you make this thread?

I didn't say it was my opinion because that much is implied - remember that word, "imply"?

And if it wasn't our way of doing it, you would never have made this thread.

Unlike you, who has been completely open to opposing arguments and has never tried to shut anyone down or talk down to people by saying things like "your people" or calling people retards, right? Please.

edited 10th Jul '15 8:05:25 AM by PhysicalStamina

To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."

I don't generally watch english dubs, though that's mostly out of preference. There are some pretty great dubs (Panty and Stocking being the main one that comes to mind), but generally speaking I find the acting in most of them...underwhelming? If you compare it to the acting in most western cartoons it just doesn't really work for me. Of course I don't have the faculties to properly judge japanese VA, but i'd rather watch something where I can't 100% tell if the acting is bad than something where I KNOW the acting is bad. i don't know if that makes sense to anybody else but I don't know how else to put it.

with that said I think it's fine if the VA has a slightly different interpretation. sometimes it's downright necessary; the Goku example has already been brought up, and I don't know why they find it acceptable, but I personally detest it. i'd much rather watch DBZ dubbed because of that alone.

edited 10th Jul '15 8:23:51 AM by wehrmacht

Alright, I understand that. I edited that and used your own posts and some of my earlier ones in this thread as direct foundations.

• sigh *

Reply #1: Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Me: I know. It's written in the title. Doesn't mean we can't have a discussion about it. I never implied that this being an opinion should halt any potential discussion or debate from it.

Why keep this crap allegation about me? I'm this close to just say 'f*ck it' since the thread is going nowhere and 80% of the debates stemmed from a misunderstanding or straw man allegations about me like me "being condescending" or tries to shove down in your throats that this my opinion hence no discussion should arrive out of it. Firstly, my attitude is a reflection of how I perceive the other user's attitude to be. Secondly, I do welcome discussion, otherwise I wouldn't stay for so long discussing. I'm fine with discussion, as long as it's civil and not arrogantly confrontational.

I am only now specifying that these are my opinions since I get misrepresented, namely by Physical Stamina and Logograph, that I somehow act as if my opinions are law, which is a total bogus straw man. Hence I wrote (paraphrase) "when I enter a debate, I don't feel the need to specify after every sentence that this is an opinionated matter since debate itself cannot be without opinions, so it would be redundant to repeat myself especially considering the title that should, in principle, be enough."

Did I say it wasn't your opinion or something? I said you act as if your statements are objective here, which it is not, and hence I felt you to be pompous with that comment, as you are right now.

Not necessarily. I would have said it isn't being done frequently and your rhetoric doesn't change the matter here. No one still said anything about this not being "your" way of doing it.

Yes. Because if I did, it wouldn't be so hard for you to quote me on these (sarcastic) rhetorics of yours, right?

edited 10th Jul '15 8:41:35 AM by One_Island

So I have to explicitly state that it's my opinion to not "act as if they're facts"? Context clues. Learn them.

I've quoted you multiple times, only for you to do the equivalent to closing you eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears, and going "la-la-la-la I can't hear you". I might as well be talking to a brick wall at this point.

To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."

What this thread needs:

• A change in the title and the OP to clarify the actual subject matter.
• One_Island, you need to calm down. It's true some people might have misunderstood your actual intent and argument, but being confrontational doesn't help. It feels like you're trying to have thread ownership, trying to respond to each and every person. If doing that is getting you exhausted, you should scale it down and let others speak.

What this thread needs:

• a lock

To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."

Give the person a chance. Obviously the thread started with a misunderstanding and it's taken a lot of effort to rerail (with extra effort from Watchtower). The thread creator has been being loud and all, but responding the same way isn't helping either.

Everything Trivialis said to OI applies to you as well. You've easily been the loudest and most aggressive against him, and the two of you have created a feedback loop against yourselves. You both need to stop and calm down.