Netflix Daredevil

Cartinelli is easily the most popular pairing in the Agent Carter Fandom. And Jessica is paired more often with Trish than with Luke. It is not that Femmeslash is less popular, it is that most shows don't have enough interesting female characters to make it a priority.

Yeah, it definitely depends on the media in question.

Supergirl for instance has something like 80%> of its fics F/F.

That's true. Supergirl does have a lot of femslash fics. And Trishica does seem to be the most popular Jessica Jones ship. Makes sense too; if a show has a lot of well characterized female characters who have significant interactions with each other, people will ship more f/f ships.

Trust you? The only person I can trust is myself.

The presence of Matt's mother in season 3 lends credence to the idea that Elektra made it out of the pit. Elektra probably even delivered Matt to the convent, then ran off to do her own thing. I imagine that Elektra might make a cameo or turn up, but it will definitely be in a much reduced role compared to before, so that fans can have closure with her character. I don’t see Elektra getting ‘back together’ with Matt or even a love triangle. This season is all about going in a different direction, going back to the street-level roots of season 1, because keeping Elektra around for too long would result in retreading large parts of The Defenders and the back half of Daredevil season 2.

On the subject of relationships: with all the heavy-handed suggestions that they're going the "Born Again" route, I'd expect Matt to have a pretty epic reunion with Karen in season 3. In particular, I’m kinda expecting Matt and Karen's slow burn love story to be very heavily focused on during the season. They’ve been building Matt and Karen up slowly since the first season, and each standalone season of Daredevil so far have ended with a Matt / Karen moment (the "there's something in your voice" conversation in season 1, the identity reveal in season 2). So, angst, there’s gonna be sparks, there’s gonna be passion and maybe even a few love scenes with the danger growing. Seriously, no one wants to talk about the important stuff, like how Matt, who according to Foggy is sexually promiscuous, is the only one of the four Defenders to not have had sex on-camera in the present-day scenes (his only sex scene so far has been with Elektra in a flashback).

Because let's remember, The Defenders was the closing of one chapter for Matt and embracing a new start. He’s coming back from the dead to rebuild his life and his relationships with both Karen and Foggy. Things he forgot about by the end of season 2. He knows he loves Karen and vice versa, as Charlie Cox and Deborah Ann Woll have emphasized in interviews. It's just a question of how they both get there now that Karen knows who Matt is and when she’ll reveal who she is to him. Which brings up the fact that not only is Matt's mom in the picture, but Karen’s past is going to finally come into the forefront, based again on what Deborah Ann Woll said on The Punisher media tour. And this will most likely be the thing that strengthens their bond. So by the end of the season, Matt and Karen should be a couple.

I'd also say that we should expect Foggy and Marci’s romantic relationship to get a bit more focus in season 3. We know that at the time of The Punisher, Karen and Foggy haven’t been speaking much, probably due to the grief over Matt’s supposed death. (I wouldn't be surprised if they have Foggy make a few appearances in season 2 of Jessica Jones (2015) just so we can check up on him, maybe give him a mini-adventure with Jessica) I imagine Foggy’s been drinking, and seeking solace and comfort in Marci’s arms. Which makes me think Marci might be the next civilian from the N&M allies group to learn Matt's secret. Maybe she figures it out on her own.

edited 25th Jan '18 6:22:32 PM by dmcreif

The cold never bothered me anyway

I wouldn't be so sure if season 3 will end on Matt/Karen getting back together. Season 2 and The Defenders emphasized Matt's connection with Elektra, what with Matt promising to leave town with her (something he definitely wouldn't do for anyone else), insisting on bringing Elektra back to the light and even trying to sacrifice his life for a chance to save her (after he already lost her twicve, no less). Their last scene together ends with them passionately kissing.

I just think it wouldn't feel right if Matt just conveniently forgot his deep feelings for Elektra (feelings that he apparently couldn't overcome since their time together in college) and started dating someone else after Elektra apparently saved his life. And it would take time for Matt and Karen to re-establish their emotional connection after their breakup in season 2. Seems like a lot to cram into one season.

Also, canon couples can be quite popular in fanfiction. For example, Yuuri/Viktor from "Yuuri on Ice" is easily the most popular fandom pairing, and it is also canon.

edited 26th Jan '18 2:57:07 AM by Ancient_Castle

I love my country, I just hate its government

Honestly, I think the MCU should in general just ignore the usual canon pairings and instead just look where the dices fall. Well, other than Luke and Jessica, that one has to happen eventually. But otherwise, just see who has chemistry and pair those people together.

Agreed. But I heard they performed some "chemistry tests" during castings to see if the interactions between actors/characters would work.

I love my country, I just hate its government

And yet Matt and Karen don't have any chemistry whatsoever. They are easily the worst romance in the MCU, imho. I buy Thor and Jane more than those two.

You know I wish people would stop arguing about who has better chemistry because chemistry is very subjective.

To me, Elektra probably is one of the four people on the entire planet Matt could be open and honest with, but also the one who disappeared for years without a word, and the man needed some closure over his deeply-in-self-destructive-love relationship with her. A part of him will always love her, not in love with her but love her, deeply, because of that. She's family the way Frank Castle defines family. It's about trust with them, and loyalty.

It seems very important to point out that after all those scenes with Matt, Elektra helped calm Matt so he could save Karen, because she knew what Karen meant to Matt, he's flipping out for a reason, Elektra knows he's in love with someone else and accepts it, helps him save her, even. Matt and Elektra have a whole convoluted, messed up relationship, but it was formative to who he is.

There's this great Empire podcast, post-season 2, that interviewed Charlie Cox and Elodie Yung together about all of this in s2 and some of the things I took away from it was 1) they confirm the 'let's survive and we'll run away together forever' was fantasy bs they both chose to believe in because they knew they were going to die (I already took that scene as very Butch and Sundance anyway), and 2) Charlie Cox said, by the end of s2, Matt's concluded that Karen was the great love of Matt's life, but Matt thinks he's too complicated for her, she represents a purity that Matt doesn't think he deserves, and he would never choose Matt for her, he loves her too much. But he needed to show her who he is, regardless.

The cold never bothered me anyway

I'll admit that I never supported Matt/Karen in the first place. It seemed deceitful, uninteresting, and she just had way better chemistry with Foggy.

That said, I feel like the thing with Elektra should, by all rights, be a death knell for Matt/Karen. He is clearly still much more infatuated with Elektra than he's ever been for Karen. He even literally tried to die for her.

I've got this feeling that season 3's going to put Matt in this place where he has to choose between the "Good" love interest Karen and the "Evil" love interest Elektra, and it grosses me out. Karen deserves better than to be some asshole's moral conflict.

In the context of Matt and Karen's relationship, Matt's not a hero tempted by a dark seductress of his past. He's a dipshit who never got over his ex. That doesn't mean Karen needs to help guide him to a better place. It means that he's not emotionally mature enough for the kind of relationship she's looking for, and she'd be better off moving on.

Matt running back to Elektra isn't drama, it's a dealbreaker.

edited 26th Jan '18 7:53:18 AM by TobiasDrake

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Yeah, it already grossed me out in season 2 that Elektra was reduced to the "temptress who isn't good for Matt" vs Karen as the "Madonna who could be his salvation". And from a female perspective, it is easy: If a man can't commit to you from the get go, he is not the right man for you. Because if he would truly love you, there wouldn't be any question about this in the first place.

I really don't want to see more of this. Like I said, I am not a big fan of Karen as a character, but she is better than that, at this point she should just take Urich's role as star reporter with principle and ditch Matt altogether.

Love triangles are the lowest form of comedy.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

And the lowest form of drama....they are the highest form of horror though. At least to me. Every time one rears its ugly head I get the chills....

There is a reason why I have stopped watching the CW shows....

And the lowest form of drama....they are the highest form of horror though. At least to me. Every time one rears its ugly head I get the chills....

There is a reason why I have stopped watching the CW shows....

I can't dispute that. That's why everyone except the most hardcore Olicity shippers DESPISES Olicity. Of course, The CW shows are also more relationship drama heavy.

Now what I was getting at with regards to what the future of Matt/Karen and Matt/Elektra, is that both certainly have been built up enough that there's points to be made in favor of either relationship happening, especially when both are from the comics. However, I feel that with the season they're telling, the Hand being phased out of Daredevil to return to Fisk and the street-level roots of season 1, Matt/Karen is probably more likely to happen. Though that doesn't rule out Elektra getting a redemption arc down the road.

But I do want Matt to have had closure surrounding his feelings for Elektra. Because while his obsessive and extremely unhealthy love for her is compelling on some level, I also feel she is holding Matt’s story back, and Matt needs new story material. Their relationship will never make sense to me as anything more than two people who are very much drawn to each other for very obvious reasons but ultimately not meant to be. I think Matt might actually be ready to let her go, knowing that he did his best to save both her soul and her life. That it might allow him to move on. I at least hope that's the case.

I think it’s likely Elektra did survive Midland Circle (and probably delivered Matt to his mother at the convent) and will pop back into Matt’s life to offer help/chaos from time to time. That's basically her role in the comics these days anyways.

The cold never bothered me anyway

Still say Matt just needs to bang Foggy.

My various fanfics.

I'd be down for that.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Nah...didn't you know that Foggy is totally perfect for Ward? (No kidding, for two characters who haven't even been in the same show yet they are an oddly popular couple).

I'll take it.

Can Karen and Colleen ditch their awful love interests and run off together too, while we're at it?

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Sounds like a fantastic couple to me! Though I'm pretty partial to Misty/Colleen, too.

Trust you? The only person I can trust is myself.

Seconded

DAUGHTERS OF THE DRAGON

edited 26th Jan '18 1:02:35 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

And Frank with drunken loneliness before, finally, the sweet relief of death.

My various fanfics.

I haven't seen the Punisher series yet, but I really hope it doesn't try to ship Frank with anyone. It always just feels wrong when writers try to pair off Frank with a love interest.

If Frank was emotionally capable of moving on from his wife and putting what happened behind him, he wouldn't be killing people.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

You'd be disturbed by the amount of people shipping him with Karen just because he has a sexy beard and she's the only woman he talks to at length.

My various fanfics.

To save you from dread, he doesn't get shipped with anyone.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

You'd be disturbed by the amount of people shipping him with Karen just because he has a sexy beard and she's the only woman he talks to at length.

Yeah, even though it's SCREAMINGLY obvious that Karen is still in the midst of mourning Matt, and Frank himself is nowhere near a place where he's processed his grief enough to start a new relationship with anyone else.

I'm not against the Kastle ship existing. However, I take issue with some of the shippers, who obviously don't care about the character arcs, how the story is told, and where the narrative is going; they simply want to feel good, because "so and so being together would so nice." They don't understand that all character relationships should have tension and chemistry to bring out the characters. Shippers mistake the tension as romantic hints for whatever reason, and believe they have written a superior narrative by filling in that gap, while ignoring all other story elements, and then turn it into an obsession. (Honestly, the shipper phenomenon deserves some serious psychology studies)

If Frank was emotionally capable of moving on from his wife and putting what happened behind him, he wouldn't be killing people.

That's what many Kastle shippers, at least to me, fail to understand. They fail to understand the detrimental effect that their ship would have on Frank as a character if he were to move on from the trauma that sent him down his path in the first place. The ONLY woman Frank has loved and ever will love is Maria. The loss of Maria and the kids is the primary motivator for Frank to do what he does. For him to move on from that and hook up with a woman that isn’t Maria ends up taking away his reason to be the Punisher in the first place. Frank and Maria is ALWAYS the canon relationship for Frank, and he never moves on.

And on Karen's end, the whole conflict that Matt and Karen have stems from the fact that Matt can't drop Daredeviling and bring justice with the law. The whole point about Karen being an investigative journalist is because it's a job that nicely supplements what Matt is doing as Daredevil. Suppose Karen gets into a relationship with Frank, how would that turn out? Something would have to give, be it Frank's methods or Karen's morality. And Frank wouldn't get Karen involved with his life. He knows better. Not only he is not available, he understands this would be a bad idea. Karen is his morality pet, a reminder of his far gone human side that he has left behind, at least until Curtis, David, and David's family step in to fill that void. Frank will protect Karen as an idealistic idea but not as a romantic partner.

edited 26th Jan '18 3:49:03 PM by dmcreif

The cold never bothered me anyway