The Armored Vehicle Thread

Tom and Garcon: You are both technically correct. Arena used an air bursting directed fragmentation projectile to shoot a spray of fragments and shrapnel in the direction of the incoming threat.

I would argue that Arena was reasonable. Not as good as it could be but given the age of the overall system it worked reasonably well. Even Drozd despite its failings in various forms of coverage managed to reduce overall Soviet tank losses.

The damaging blast effect from Arena is more incidental than deliberate depending how close it is when the interceptor detonates. As I understand it the rate at which the shaped charge part of the directed fragmentation effect strikes the target is around 50% at the high end give or take.

I would not be surprised to find someone is looking to use a close range shaped charge blast to cut a warhead instead of blasting it with explosive and/fragments.

They claim outright in their press release here [1] that Afghanit is effective against KE penetrators. There was no "it was a accident" or anything like that, they say that it works. Here's the relevant quote for anyone who doesn't want to click the link: "The first test interceptions of crowbars took place this year. This newest system was able to cope with such complex goals. Previously, it was thought to be impossible to destroy armor-piercing projectiles”.

Arena uses frag countermeasures. They're typically described as "cassettes" and are supposed to contain several hundred metal pellets. You can actually see the "cassette" being launched in slow-mo videos of the systems. [2]

Edited by archonspeaks on Jul 31st 2018 at 7:55:01 AM

So...they are Gordon Freeman proofing the Armata?

That's not the same release I saw. The one I read some time ago had a further statement saying it couldn't be replicated reliably due to a lack of computing power.

If there’s another press release, it’s not on the internet. They’ve been hyping Afghanit as able to defeat APFSDS since around 2016.

I definitely remember a quite from the spokesperson saying they lacked the processing capability to do it reliably.

There's like a whole paragraph missing from that article about it, otherwise it's roughly the same

If you can find it I’d be interested to see it, because every Russian source (RT, TASS, Iz) follows the exact same line on the topic. The Armata in general is hilariously overhyped by Russian and pro-Russian press.

For the record I don’t really believe the Israeli claims either, but considering Iron Fist uses a blast type countermeasure and Afghanit still uses frag types, their claims are slightly more probable.

In other news,

Russia's contestant in the 2018 Tank Biathlon threw a track during a record setting 77 kph sprint on dirt.

At least it didn't throw it at the top of its run and did it after the tank slowed down and started turning.

From what I've been getting from the Biathlon, the Russians gave their most run down and crappy tanks to the other contestants and restricted the Chinese from using their calibration computer on their Type 96, because the T-72 the Russians provided wasn't calibrated but once the Chinese used their calibration computer the Russians declared it to be an unfair advantage.

Is there anything the Russian government doesn't try to cheat?

Who cares, you get to watch T-72s jump cars and stuff.

What more do you need, really?

To answer your question: no, there isn’t.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 1st 2018 at 10:14:44 AM

Double post, but relevant:

Russia has cut its purchase of T-14s down to 100 from the originally planned 2300. [1]

Russia cant actualy afford its new tank.

Show of hands, who is suprised?

Any one?

...

Annny one?

Wow, that is quite the order drop. That is roughly a 95% order decrease and I can guarantee that will negatively affect the prices of future orders.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:26:59 AM

Not surprised they cut the order but am surprised it was by such a significant amount, I was expecting more than just 100.

We'll see how the big the order for that T-90 model is with half of Armata's kit backported to it.

The VDV is forming three tank battalions. Apparently yes, you can fit a T-72B3 inside an An-124.

Interesting. I thought they were going all in on a new light tank design a few years ago specifically for the VDV.

RE: Armata news.

Yeah I read that last night. Something doesn't add up and reducing orders only raises further questions, none of which make either the Kremlin or the RGF look good.

It'd be like the US suddenly halting all procurement of the F-35 and being tight lipped about why. It'd raise far too many questions concerning the capability, costs, and politics of the program.

Nothing I've heard or seen shows that the T-14 is underperforming in any way.

Maybe Russia's in a much more fragile economic position than we thought.

I suspect the fact that the Armata has been struggling is what led to such a severe cut. They were never going to have that many of them, but with the issues it’s had it seems they don’t really care. There’s also probably some concerns with the ability to procure electronics, none of the advanced systems are produced domestically.

They lack the industrial and technological capabilities to actually make a good tank out of a novel design.

That’s sort of always the story for them though. Refer back to the Su-57 for another example.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 3rd 2018 at 6:57:05 AM

I am betting there is a lack of export orders to help reduce overall costs. I am betting big money on them looking at the older gen Tanks for their cost-effectiveness even with the upgraded kit.

I think you're probably right on about the electronics procurement because near as I can tell it's performing as advertised.

Doesn't mean anything if they can't build them.

It’s certainly not performing as advertised, because it’s advertised as a NATO-terrorizing ultra tank. It’s not that effective.

It definitely has some performance issues, but they’re all related to the low quality electronics. Unfortunately it’s an electronics-heavy design. The victory day parade breakdown was caused by electronics issues, and the fire control and optics are known to be problematic.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 3rd 2018 at 7:28:27 AM

Tank that's as tough as anything the West has made plus that super nasty Russian ammunition and ATG Ms, advanced APS and softkill systems, remote turret and excellent crew safety plus a full suite of EW equipment and modular construction means making new variants is easy.

I haven't heard or seen anything that says any of that isn't working as designed.

I'd personally classify the electronics issue as a quality control problem and not a design problem.

Everything I've heard from the grapevine says that when it works it's a damn scary object but the Russians just aren't in a position to build it at the moment.

Edited by LeGarcon on Aug 3rd 2018 at 10:35:05 AM