Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
https://liveuamap.com/en/2018/25-november-ukrainian-sof-has-cleared-rozsadky-village-at
A liveuamap update that Rozsadky was secured by Ukrainian commandos.
The geomap I saw points it near rebel territory.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46370619
The Kremlin is accusing Poroshenko of staging the incident to boost his party for the elections next year.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Probably projection, given that Putin is taking a lot of heat over the Russian economy and pension reforms.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Barring a straight-up coup, isn't Poroshenko's bid for a second term basically unsalvageable?
Pretty much. Unless there's a Russian ground invasion, those elections are going to happen March 31st and we'll have a new president to deal with.
Just hope that Azov Battalion and its subsidiaries don't get too powerful in the meanwhile.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
The Unian news has some info on the sailors who are accused by the FSB of trespassing and breaking Russian law:
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
http://militaryland.net/ukraine/live-the-evening-of-supposed-offensive/#more-2661
DPR reps mentioned that Ukrainian troops are going on the offensive... so far, only so-called DPR troops were on standby.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Servant of the Omnissiah
At this point looks like the Donbass Region is effectively out of the reach of the government in Kiev.
You think they'll do a Crimea with it?
I hold the secrets of the machine.
Deranged X-Mas Figure
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Apparantly it was predicted that despite the report, there was never going to be an offensive in the first place. Probably for the best.
Edited by kkhohoho on Dec 14th 2018 at 12:54:37 PM
Doctor Who — Long Way Around: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13536044/1/Doctor-Who-Long-Way-Around
The Ukrainian Orthodox Church is officially an autocephalous church. Much butthurt was had in Moscow.
Ordinarily, I'd complain about the Ukrainian Parliament getting involved (by refusing to allow Moscow Patriarchate chaplains in the military and forcing the Moscow loyalists to change their name to UOC-MP), since I'm pretty sure Ukraine's supposed to have a firm Western-style separation between church and state, but as Russia doesn't have said separation in practice, I somehow find my supply of fucks to be lacking and don't have any to give for my ordinary concerns.
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
As someone said, those laws work not against Russia, but against Ukrainian citizens. So, claiming Russia doesn't have separation of church and state is not really a good excuse (not that it would be otherwise). And calling UPC-MP members "Moscow loyalists" is painting with prety wide brush, to put it mildly, especially for someone who belives in separation of church and state.
Seperation of church and state works against Ukrainian citizens?
No, the laws targeting UOC-MP target Ukrainian citizens, not Russia.
Edited by Smeagol17 on Jan 16th 2019 at 5:08:43 PM
Now that’s just silly.
If Moscow didn’t continuously use the Church as a tool to try and exert control over Ukraine we wouldn’t even be in this situation.
They should have sent a poet.
Your statement does not contradict mine.
No, it's not (though I can see how you misconstrued it). It's a statement of fact - they're loyal to the Moscow Patriarchate. Different Moscow.
With that said, if the Kremlin uses the Patriarchate as a de facto state agency and is employing the Russian Orthodox Church as a tool of subversion in Ukraine (both of which are true) then the Ukrainian Rada is justified in treating the Moscow Patriarchate as an agency of a hostile power and passing laws regarding its subsidiary's ability to operate in Ukraine.
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
Really? You should know that UOC-MP is more independent from ROC then OCU is/will be from Constantinople Patriarchate. And if we are to speak in terms like "subversion" and "de facto state agency", than Ukrainian SBU is much more of a Russian agency than UOC-MP. But it has not been proscripted).
And, as I said, "laws regarding its subsidiary's ability to operate in Ukraine" target not Russia or ROC, but Ukrainian citizens.
Edited by Smeagol17 on Jan 24th 2019 at 8:30:44 PM
If anyone is interested here's the State Program for the Development of the Armed Forces of Ukraine until 2020.[PDF] It's from 2017, but it's still interesting in terms of what is expected of the military.
News say Yanukovich' trial is done. Sentenced to 13 years of prison.
Servant of the Omnissiah
What are the odds on Putin bailing his ass out? Because it'd be a windfall if the bets are properly placed.
I hold the secrets of the machine.
Beware the Crazy Man.
It was in absentia.
Servant of the Omnissiah
Tch. Damn shame. I forget he got the hell out of dodge when Maidan happened.
I hold the secrets of the machine.
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
The SBU started to target offices and other places belonging to (Ukraine) Orthodox places churches that pledged loyalty to the Moscow-based Orthodox church.
Although observers present in the raid have reported that the SBU officers had been polite in their inquiry.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
I'm reading this now, but the SBU is intercepting data to suggest that Wagner contractors are in Ukraine.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
http://militaryland.net/ukraine/photos-of-captured-vessels/
TASS has posted the first few photos of the Ukrainian ships captured. They also mentioned that the sailors on board are all detained.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"