Marvel-DC Merged Universe Community Project...

He was referring to the first members.

To answer that, why were the X-Men formed in this universe? Is Xavier trying to rally mutants together for equal rights, or is he trying to help those with superpowers to control their abilities and use them for good? If the former, then yeah, the original lineup makes sense; if the latter, then there's no particular reason to have Beast or Angel in there, because their mutations are purely anatomical.

Speaking of which, are we in fact going with the idea that the majority of mutants don't have powers, they just look weird?

If we are, then I have an idea. Beast is a founder, but he isn't Xavier's student - he's his long-time friend and partner. Xavier and McCoy both realise that the increasing mutant population is going to lead to social unrest, and problems (whether deliberate or accidental) caused by the minority that do have powers will lead to prejudice and backlash against all mutants. Thus, they found a social movement with a name like National Association for the Advancement of Mutants (NAAM). (They tried to bring in Max Eisenhardt, but he believed that mutants were destined to replace norms).

Anyway, Henry McCoy and his protege, Warren Worthington, are the main public face of NAAM. They focus on education, combating prejudice, and providing aid to disadvantaged and victimised mutants. Since McCoy managed to qualify as a doctor, Xavier considers him to be a role model for young mutants everywhere that they can succeed in spite of the prejudice against them. His education, cultured nature, and social connections also mean that upper-class norms take him seriously, so he can spread his message of equality among the movers and shakers.

Meanwhile, Xavier begins gathering those mutants with paranormal abilities, hoping to give them a safe space to master their powers and thus show that even the dangerous mutants can still be good members of society. His initial group consists of Scott Summers, Bobby Drake, and Jean Grey - this group is known as the X-Men; others come later.

---

By the way, somebody asked earlier if there were any mutants in DC. I think that if she isn't, Black Canary could reasonably work as a mutant.

edited 25th Oct '13 2:26:53 PM by VampireBuddha

Ukrainian Red Cross

Ugh. Let's not make Wolverine the leader. Fuck Wolverine. Fuck Wolverine. Wolverine is an asshole. Cyclops is and has always been way cooler than Wolverine. If Cyclops is around, he leads the X-Men. If he's not, then Storm leads.

If it's a different world, with all sorts of differences from the normal Marvel continuity, I say the founding X-Men should be different, too.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

... would Raven count as a mutant?

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

She's a demon thingy, so probably not. I don't know enough about Illyana Rasputin to compare, though.

For we shall slay evil with logic...

Huh. We could make Nightcrawler and Raven both half-mutant, half-demons, with Trigon as their daddy.

Not Azazel. Because fuck Azazel.

yeah, and we could totally play off of Raven being named after her mother, Raven Darkholme!

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

A couple of things I've though about, in terms of mutants and the X-Men. First: While I think that there should indeed be only a minority of, say, 300-500 mutants who have decent powers among the the several million mutants out there, I think that many 'regular' mutants might still have some sort of minor power, relating to their physical appearance. For example, if someone has rock-like skin, they're bound to at least be somewhat stronger and more durable then regular humans, right? Or, if someone has feathers all over their body and the beak, eyes, and hollow bones to match, might they not have a degree of flight, even if it's limited? Furthermore, how do we exactly define just what 'looking different' is? Is it a mere horn or two? An extra eye, or a slightly different skin pigmentation? Or could someone go full-on Nightcrawler, only with the absence of powers? (Beyond physical abilities that would come with their different body, such as greater agility and reflexes.) I just think we should really have some sort of benchmark here.

Second: I think the founding members of the X-Men in the main Marvel Universe could still work here, but I also think it would not be very long at all before more members joined, for a few reasons. 1. Xavier is not only one of the world's most powerful telepaths, but he also has Cerebro. He should easily be able to search out and recruit new mutants to join his team. 2.The mutants that have actual Superpowers — powers that go beyond mere natural abilities that come with their different biological makeup — are going to be a minority within a minority. It doesn't help that while most mutants look different then normal, a number of mutants with actual powers look either just or mostly like ordinary humans, so they might be ostracized by their own kind. And even those who do look different; they might still be not be looked so favorably by their fellow mutants once they find out about their powers. Thus, it's reasonable to assume that these select mutants would be looking for a new 'home'; a safehaven where they can be at ease among those like themselves, with the added bonus of being able to advocate for their fellow mutants, perhaps with the intent in mind of showing that they're mutants too, and not so different from the rest of their kind. Just like the average mutant wants to promote that they're not so different from the average human.

Which brings me to another point; the X-Men are going to have to be darn careful about who they choose to speak on their behalf. If they truly want to promote the cause of the average mutant, and gain their support, then they need people who actually look like the average mutant. Send out Beast, Nightcrawler, Colossus armored up, Wolfsbane in Werewolf form, Pixie, Rockslide, even freaking Maggot or Marrow; anyone who looks 'different'. Now, perhaps they can also send up a human-looking mutant or two, to try to prove that they're not so different from humans either. But they can't send out too many, or else, they'll lose the average mutant's support. And then, the X-Men would no longer be a minority within a minority; they would be considered by everyone to be a minority in and of themselves, and with only several hundred Superpowered mutants around at that point, the Government might not have many qualms in rounding them up. It'd be post House of M all over again, with the X-Men having to fight for their survival. But; if they make sure to have most of the X-men who show up at public gatherings and press conferences be those who appear to look like the average mutant, then they might be fine.

Also, I propose that the X-Men eventually turn into something of an organization. With all that I've said in mind, they're going to be getting a good deal of recruits; enough that they can afford to send different teams to different cities across the US, if not the globe. Each team would be expected not just to protect their local area from mutant-related threats, but also to speak on mutantanity's behalf. This would enforce the idea of mutants being a global community, with the X-Men's cause spreading across the rest of the world. (It would also provide a reasonable excuse for having so many X-books.)

edited 26th Oct '13 6:06:18 AM by kkhohoho

I had an idea regarding how organizations like S.H.I.E.L.D and Checkmate would work. Prior to the creation of the C.I.A, there was an agency that operated during WW 2 called The Office of Strategic Services. What if, in this universe, the Allies created Checkmate in an attempt unify their intelligence and consolidate their effort to combat forces like the Axis and Hydra.

While they would use metahuman operatives (Hour Man, Captain America, Star Man, Namor etc.) and secret agents/units (Spy-Smasher, Sgt Rock and the Howling Commandos, Unknown Soldier etc) they would soon grow wary of how said operatives could be used by individual world powers and governments.

With the approach of the Cold War, Checkmate would then repurpose and retool itself into S.H.I.E.L.D as a way to police the world and to keep an eye on Metahuman activity.

edited 25th Oct '13 11:01:41 PM by AtomJames

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.

So, you are saying that Checkmate IS SHIELD? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

I could see that happening...

Here is my idea. Checkmate is an NSA/CIA oriented Black Ops division, made up specifically of superheroes and mutants to help defend the US and its allies.

SHIELD on the other hand is military oriented, and as such is a little bit more direct. Checkmate focuses on stealth and espionage missions, while SHIELD leans more toward military operations, both classified and unclassified.

edited 25th Oct '13 11:22:05 PM by Durzan

Peace out scrubs.

I actually suggested Angel as Beast's assistant because he looks almost normal, and so would be more readily accepted by some of the more conservative norms.

As for what defines a mutant... for what it's worth, in Judge Dredd mutants are officially defined as those whose DNA is more than 10% different from that of baseline humanity with a blanket exception for psychics, but that probably isn't practical here due to the Fourth Amendment.

Perhaps mutation is a bit subjective in-universe - people cry "mutant!" at anyone with a deformity they don't like. So, for example, someone with a dog's head would be called a mutant, but a school bully might call a kid with a third nipple a mutant as well. (That's more or less how racism was/is in the real world).

Ukrainian Red Cross

To put it simply, yes. I also just realised that if this is the case than its possible that Nick Fury could've served during WW 2 under the command of Sgt. Rock before he joined Checkmate proper under the command of then Director Steel (Sargent Steel). Working his way through the Chain of Command he would soon become director himself acting as a mentor to operatives like Maria Hill and King Faraday.

edited 25th Oct '13 11:29:26 PM by AtomJames

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.

Right. Which gives me another thought; would there not be certain 'sub-communities' within the Mutant Community? For example, mutants who don't look that different from regular humans — who have, say, an extra nipple, a third eye, an extra arm, an unnatural hair or eye color, etc, — might be closer to each other than mutants who don't really look human at all anymore; mutants who look like Petting-Zoo People, monsters, demons, etc. Those mutants would likely be closer with each other as well. But I don't know if the two camps would really feel like they're one and the same. It'd be up to the X-men to prove that the two camps, as well as the X-Men themselves, all are part of the same group, via the cold hard proof of genetics; that they all posses the fabled X-Gene, and are thus part of the same group, and therefore, are all one. Of course, this would likely take some work, but with Beast, fabled mutant geneticist, on the case, then it could be done.

edited 26th Oct '13 10:20:10 AM by kkhohoho

A very nifty idea! It would be great to see how brothers and sisters could react to that if they were from too opposite camps. I'm, of course, thinking of Nightcrawler and Raven here if thats still something we're going with.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.

I do like the idea of Nightcrawler and Raven as half-sibling hald-mutant half-demons. So yeah, the two of them belonging to different ghettos brings up some nice storytelling possibilities.

That's a really good idea. It does make sense that the nearly normal mutants would be more accepted than the really freaky-looking ones, which would tend to put them into different communities.

OK, discussing this is going to be a bit awkward without terms. I'm going to use seminorm for those mutants without superhuman abilities who can possibly pass for norm if they're careful, and morlocks (after the X-Men group) for those who are unmistakeably mutant.

Anyway, I think that among seminorms, many would opt for cosmetic surgery in order to blend in better. When it becomes clear that mutants aren't going anywhere, other seminorms would reject this as a betrayal of their nature, and see it as self-loathing to try and become like the norms who oppress them; hence, they would come to embrace morlock culture, and a trend for undergoing extensive body modification would emerge among young seminorms in order to appear as inhuman as possible.

Ukrainian Red Cross

And building on that, just like how Callisto was the original leader of the Morlocks in the Marvel U, she could still be leader here as well. Maybe not as part of some underground cult, but instead, as a sort of radical activist and speaker for morlock rights. Now, as anyone who's read the comics would know, Callisto doesn't actually look that different from normal humans. Which is why she'd eventually have Masque (the creepy fat guy in the hooded cloak who could change people's biologies,) make her look as inhuman possible, while still having a perfectly functional body. She'd be the public face and de-facto leader of the general morlock community, which would give her a lot more power and clout then she ever had in the main Marvel U. (Since in the main Marvel U, the Morlocks were just an underground group of mutants restricted to the New York sewer system.)

edited 26th Oct '13 10:28:16 AM by kkhohoho

Time for another prod.

^^Interesting Ideas for the X-Men... I am really enjoying them.

Does anyone else have anything to say about it, or a way to further flesh out the ideas?

Or are we finished discussing the X-Men?

Peace out scrubs.

Here's my thoughts on the X-Men:

This isn't the normal continuity. Things can be changed. There's no reason to feel beholden to the original comics, to have Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Iceman, Beast and Angel. We can put whoever we want in the initial line-up.

Angel's useless, so we'll get rid of him. (No, seriously, the guy is completely fucking useless. He is useful only and exclusively when he's Archangel.)

Cyclops should always be the first X-Man. It's a part of his core character. So he stays. Beyond that, however . . .

Iceman has a useful power. He can stay as a founding member. Beast's useful for his intelligence, so he can stay. I'm under the impression that Jean will join after the story starts, so she's presumably out.

Wolverine may as well be promoted to founding member. I figure Storm could also be a founding member.

But there should also be some DC characters as founding members. However, I don't know DC very well, so it's hard for me to make suggestions for that. From what I've seen, DC seems to be more dedicated to making sure characters always have some sort of explanation for how they got their powers, while Marvel's fine with just shrugging and saying "fuck it, born with them." I figure Beast-Boy could probably be tweaked into being a mutant rather than experimented on. Raven's background is more demonic, and that's a core part of her character, so I'd be wary of making her a mutant. But there should be another woman, and I honestly can't come up with any.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

I'm thinking Cyclops, Iceman, Raven, Beast, Beast Boy (but we'd have to call him Changeling, to avoid confusion), and either Storm or Kitty. Save Wolverine for later, that way when he does show up, Cyclops is all like, "Whoa bro who's this guy challenging my authority?" Jean shows up later too, and so does Rogue.

The very best, like no one ever was. Check out my Spider-Man fanfic here! [1]

Sounds reasonable.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.

other possible DC contenders would br Jericho and the West children, Iris and Jai.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.

I believe Black Canary is canonically a mutant, so she can go in.

Ukrainian Red Cross

She would fit in wonderfully well. I could easily see her as BFFS with Kitty and having an issue with Emma Frost.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.

Eh, I still think that Angel should be a member, but not because of his powers. Or at least, he could be a supporter. Like Vampire Bhudda said, he's a mutant, he looks human enough to appeal to the norms and mutant enough to appeal to the other mutants, and he has oodles of cash. He'd be less of a fighter, and more of an ally, often speaking with the X-men at meetings and rallies, and providing them with all of the money and resources they could ever need.

However, after several years pass, he winds up getting involved in the Morlock Massacre, gets his wings torn off, and then gets turned by Apocalypse into Archangel. His lover Candy takes over the business for him, while Warren, now Archangel, joins the X-men as a proper member, now that he can't really be a spokeperson for both humans and mutants anymore, (since now, he's got metal wings, and blue skin,) and he now also has a buttload of issues of his own to work out.

EDIT: Also, I think that, for the seminorms who want to become more like morlocks, Callysto and Maske come to some of them, and give them exactly what they went. Word of this eventually gets out to the rest of the seminorm community, and soon enough, some of them start heading out to Callysto and Masque, as they all want to become Morlocks themselves. And Masque can help with that. What this does is further reinforce Callysto's status as the de facto leader of the Morlock community, though it also puts decension into the seminorm camp; should they try to just stick to the shadows, and be as human as possible? Or should they instead embrace what they are, and become as inhuman as possible? Eventually, fights start to break out, and the X-Men have to intervene.

edited 27th Oct '13 9:49:48 AM by kkhohoho

Actually, there is.

You have to remember, this isn't a new Ultimate Universe, or a spin-off verse. We're assuming that Marvel and DC merged, meaning that from here on out, this is comics canon. This isn't just a matter of making up our own universe where anything goes. It's a balancing act between keeping as much of the old canon as is possible, as well as the baggage that comes with it, and changing enough so that it makes sense when combined with the other company's canon.

We should minimize change for the sake of change as much as possible. We don't want to make the same mistake DC constantly does and dismiss 20+ years of comics canon as if it never happened. The goal should be that if anyone wants to read old material, it should still be at least somewhat relevant.

First line of the thread: "Okay, so the idea for this thread is to basically get a group of people together to build a new universe for a world where Marvel and DC characters co-exist from the get go, side by side. This universe will have been naturally formed, and has its own separate continuity that DOES NOT INTERACT with the main continuity from either universe. "