Disney/Pixar In General

I love you Ani. Not that everyone needs to like it (I dont like Inside Out or lots of the mega liked movies), but thank you!

Yeah, the protagonist in the actual book is actually the cathedral, but for a Disney movie and in this set up, Esmeralda would have been the better protagonist. I think the script writer got confused by the title (which is naturally mis-translated).

Well, I'm not 100% sure I understand what you're trying to say, but let me just clarify: My issue with Tiana is that she seems perfectly fine with her life, but then a bunch of people start TELLING her she needs to work less and be more social. We never SEE that her lifestyle is harmful to her. It's only ever STATED to be harmful. Because of that, I could care less whether or not Tiana gets a boyfriend.

Whereas with Anna, it's very clear why she wants a boyfriend, and thus I find her quest to obtain one much more engaging. Like, someone earlier pointed out that Tiana wasn't getting enough sleep, which is a legitimate problem with her lifestyle. Except she never actually acts sleep deprived outside of that one scene. Heck, even if Tiana had failed to get her restaurant going, it wouldn't have been that big a deal. Life goes on, Tiana. The stakes were just way too low and I didn't care about any of it.

Yeah, except Anna didn't marry Kristoff. There was never any real commitment made, so being a bit problematic isn't as big a deal for them as it is for Tiana and Naveen.

My Headcanon is that those two are in for a messy divorce a few years down the road.

Also, I think the fact that people feel the need to tear down Frozen in order to build Princess and the Frog up speaks volumes about the quality of both movies.

edited 14th Jan '16 7:15:32 PM by spashthebandragon

Thank you so much.

It is not about tearing Frozen down to make The Princess and the Frog up. I spent a year watching all of the canon, and after watching 54 films, you start to notice comparisons, noting that Frozen and The Princess and the Frog have similar flaws. Never stated one is better than the others. Just comparing the similarities.

Okay, that comparison may have been off since one wed and the other didn`t, but both are still problematic. Tiana and Naveen went from disliking one another to falling in love in one scene, with a forced song to progress their relatioship in the middle of that as well.. There was literally no reason why Kristoff and Anna like one another. No chemistry, no indication of attraction, barely any conversation, and they had a rushed and terrible song to force their relationship to progress. I can compare it to Esmeralda and Phoebus, who also made no commitment and are in the beginning stages of their relationship, but there is chemistry, and some reasoning behind it.

You stated that it makes more sense why Anna would need or want a boyfriend, as in that makes it more meaningful or deserving. If I misinterpreted it, my bad.

Forgot that the main attribute or character of the novel is the cathedral. Maybe it was mistranslated, but they used it to their advantage to tell the outsider underdog story of Quasimodo. A lot of changes needed to be made in order to make it his story, and a strong story at that. Some aspects of the plot just seem so lopsided because they wrote the story focusing on Esmeralda, with trying to tie it back to Quasimodo.

I don't think it's a requirement that the villain always have a deep personal connection to the hero. Facilier's connection to the heroes is less personal than it is thematic — much of the movie is focused on the idea of earning your personal ambition and finding fulfillment in your work. Tiana tries to embody that ideal while Naveen comes to learn about it. Facilier, conversely embodies the idea of taking the "easy road to success" — that's right there in his name. He's the guy who tries to use various immoral shortcuts and high connections to get where he wants, as opposed to Tiana's work ethic.

We see at various points that Facilier, not unlike Tiana, is frustrated with his lot in life and resentful of people who've gotten to higher places with no effort. He's hatching the magical equivalent of a get-rich-quick scheme, except with actual grave consequences. It's telling that faced with more adversity, Facilier's response is to advance his deal with the Friends from the Other Side, seeking a higher advantage while also putting himself further in their debt.

I think there's some enormous resonance in the fact that when Tiana and Facilier finally face off, Tiana is offered the same shortcut that Facilier himself was hoping to use, and rejects it. Facilier himself, conversely, gets undone by the very same deals he had made hoping to quickly propel himself to high places.

I don't think that the focus on Quasimodo works, because they have to make up reasons to put him in places he has no business to be in. I also think that they did the character a disservice by removing all the negative aspects which are created by constant isolation. I actually think that the whole story would have worked way better from Esmeralda's perspective, because she can go wherever she wants. The only risk in this would have been that it would be too similar too Beauty and the Beast.

The Princess and the Frog is a very flawed movie, I'll admit, but I still greatly enjoy it.

And someone said Frozen has a better soundtrack? Hahahahahahano. I'll take awesome gospel, blues, and jazz-inspired songs over generic showstoppers and terrible songs that do nothing but make the conflict worse. (Seriously, "Fixer Upper" might be the worst sequence in any Disney animated feature.)

Frozen's soundtrack isn't bad by any means, but it has moments that bring the whole thing down overall. It doesn't help that its signature song has the musical creativity of a mound of dirt. The bridge is actually pretty cool, and the lyrics are decent, but musically it is one of the most generic things ever.

The Princess and the Frog has a great OST, but for some ungodly reason it only has a handful of songs that actually take advantage of it (there's a good reason why Friends on the Other Side is so beloved).

also:

Pot F just lacks this one catchy tune which is unforgettable. Especially compared to outstanding soundtracks like the one of The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast (which I think is Disney's best soundtrack of this kind).

I don't care what anyone says, I find "Dig a Little Deeper" about ten times as awful and obnoxious as "Fixer-Upper."

@4682: You gotta admit, setting the film in New Orleans was a big plus, taking advantage of the musical variety that the film could have as a result.

And it was a quite refreshing change of pace from the very Broadway style that most of Disney's animated musicals have had since The Little Mermaid.

Even Friends On The Other Side, the best song in the film, suffers from just coming the hell out of nowhere because we at that point have no idea what Facilier's motivations are and why they need to exist.

I still like Let it Go. Nyeh.

I want to ask Elsa if she'll go penguin sledding with me when I meet her at Walt Disney World. XD

"Dig a little deeper" is preachy and annoying, but not as awkward as Fixer Upper. The song causes in me "Fremdschämen" - which is never a good thing.

So you don't seem to feel schadenfreude, then? Not even wanderlust? It doesn't fit your Weltanschauung?

Probably feels like a katzenjammer...

edited 15th Jan '16 10:09:05 AM by Aldo930

the trolls didn't really need to be in the plot, honestly. they felt awkwardly implemented.

I love that you have a word for that.

edited 15th Jan '16 10:08:15 AM by DrDougsh

that's putting it mildly.

But that song's got soul!

We have a word for more or less everything. Though I might have to invent a new one to describe what I feel when I watch the Fixer Upper sequence. It's a mixture of awkwardness, shame, nausea and torture.

edited 15th Jan '16 11:51:11 AM by Swanpride

I have opposing opinions on both songs.

I really like Fixer Upper as a song (it's my favorite song in the movie), but greatly dislike it in the movie itself as it contributes little, feels forced in and adds to the level of distraction that point in the movie has in general.

Dig a Little Deeper actually has a place in the movie (albeit, in just recapping things we already know), but I dislike it as a song. It and "When We're Human" seem more obligatory than natural, like the writers went "this character has to have a song" before going "we want to work a song into the plot here," though it's not as bad as When We're Human in that respect. A lot of it is awkward when you listen to it.

So while I'd rather watch the Dig a Little Deeper sequence, I'd rather listen to Fixer Upper.

I'd say I have the same opinion was you on "Fixer Upper". On it's own, I like it because it has that very perky, "Avenue Q"-esque sound that the Lopez duo are known for that I adore - but it's implementation in the movie (and the trolls as a whole) make me near hate the song for being pointless, out of nowhere, forced, kinda creepy and, yannow, does nothing but stall out the plot and make Anna's condition worse.

As for Dig a Little Deeper, yeah it's preachy. It's a freaking Gospel tune.

And I fucking love Gospel music, so that probably tells you what I think of the song. (I will concede that "When We're Human" is hamfisted though)

edited 16th Jan '16 2:48:30 PM by PippingFool

In Mulan, I think the best song in the context of the movie is "A Girl Worth Fighting For", but otherwise "Make a Man Out of You" is just better.

You know, I've never known anyone who didn't enjoy a good gospel song.

Nor, for that matter, a good hot jazz song. Is there anyone who doesn't like the score from The Jungle Book?