RWBY General Discussion

Cliff's notes on your opinions? You usually have interesting takes on media.

x5 How would Raven die then?

There's no real reason for anyone to chase Raven down. About the only person who'd be invested enough in it would be Cinder, and I think that Salem is going to put a tighter leash on her this time.

Though I suppose it depends on what Raven's planning to do. Is she actually seeking Taiyang out for advice? Or did, once again, she use him as a convenient stepping stone to simply get the hell out of dodge and stay hidden somewhere in Vale?

I think she might atone for her own misdeeds by the time she inevitably meets up with Tai again in Volume 6, but like I said earlier, who knows what Rooster Teeth will do next regarding Raven's fate?

Edited by gjjones on Sep 23rd 2018 at 7:29:43 AM

Cinder seems to want all of the Maiden powers. That's reason enough to chase Raven. She gloated about it when she killed Vernal; she thought Vernal was the Spring Maiden and that by murdering her, Cinder would gain her powers alongside the Fall Maiden powers she already possessed.

She could have just let Vernal try to open the door. Indeed, this would have given away Raven's ploy. But she didn't want Vernal to open it; she wanted to kill Vernal, take the Spring Maiden powers, and open it herself. Indeed, the first indication that something was wrong was when the Spring Maiden powers failed to flood into Cinder.

Which is very interesting, both in the implication that a person even can collect multiple Maiden powers and in the questions it raises as to what Cinder really wants.

There is no way Cinder is actually dead. She wants the Spring Maiden powers that can only be taken from Raven by blood. And she vindictively holds grudges against people who hurt her. Raven's got a target on her forehead.

As for Salem, unlike Ruby, there is actually something to gain from Cinder killing Raven. So I doubt she'd be against it.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 23rd 2018 at 8:15:37 AM

Somehow I doubt that Salem cares about what her subordinates want. If it doesn't coincide with the end goal, sure, let them have it; otherwise Cinder's likely to be where Salem wants her to be. At this point, Raven's not a threat to their plans nor has she any intention to become one in the forseeable future.

And really, Cinder will need to recover and, presumably, be reeducated on "Team Play 101", just in time for Tyrian to make his reappearance.

Edited by FergardStratoavis on Sep 23rd 2018 at 4:40:47 PM

Making her key subordinate more powerful does benefit the end goal.

Cinder absolutely needs time to recover. I'm not saying she's going to show up at Raven's doorstep tomorrow.

But the story isn't done with Raven. That much is certain. It's just a matter of whether she'll come back on her own or be dragged back in by Cinder. In either case, she's probably not going to be alive when the final credits roll.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 23rd 2018 at 8:55:23 AM

I can concede to that. She is however unimportant for the forseeable future for everyone except Cinder, unless she decides to make herself important by going back into the fray.

Unless Salem deems Cinder a lost cause and uses Emerald instead.

As the group was walking through the vault, Qrow made it clear that they weren't going to tell Pyrrha everything until after they knew if she was with them or not.

When the group introduced the transfer idea to Pyrrha, they spoke in terms of uncertainty. They didn't know what would happen. They could only warn her that she might lose her personality and her identity, that it might change her forever. There was an obvious sadness about Ozpin's demeanour, but he contributed to the sense of uncertainty.

When the moment to do the transfer actually happened, however, Ozpin was alone with Pyrrha and Jaune. His attitude was completely different — there was a much greater sense of certainty about his demeanour, as if he knew exactly, and with absolute certainty, what would happen to Pyrrha.

There are three possible reasons for the uncertainty the first time the subject occurred (and it's possible a combination of these reasons was at work):

1. The fact the power was split in half meant they didn't know if Pyrrha would experience a 'normal' transfer.
2. The fact the transfer was happening artificially (through technology instead of Amber's conscious awareness) meant they didn't know whether Pyrrha would experience a 'normal' transfer.
3. Ozpin was withholding something about the Maiden power from the Brotherhood, not just Pyrrha.

Now, Ironwood does believe that Ozpin has been withholding from the Brotherhood and we have seen that his passivity has puzzled even Qrow, who seems to be the confident Ozpin relies most heavily upon.

Then there was the difference in Ozpin's demeanour between the two transfer scenes, where he seemed just as uncertain in the first scene about the consequences as the rest of the Brotherhood, but seemed absolutely certain of consequences during the second scene.

As a result, there is definitely a real possibility that Ozpin has been withholding information.

That said, the only Maiden transfer we've seen in the show is Cinder. We don't have many scenes of Cinder prior to stealing the power to go on, as most of the scenes are either from when she has half the power or all of the power. What we do know is that she does seem to have become more unstable since gaining the full power.

Now, there's four possibilities (and, again, combinations could be at work):

1. Cinder has always been unstable, we're just getting to see it the more of her we see.
2. Obtaining the full power of the Fall Maiden has consequences that she isn't handling at all well. One being, of course, that it comes with a soul and Aura and not just power.
3. The severe injuries she sustained from Ruby's silver eyes didn't just affect her physically, but have had a mentally damaging effect on her. By that, I don't mean the power itself is the cause; I mean that Cinder may have sustained the kind of injuries that really need therapy to help come to terms with — after all, Yang has experienced mental trauma from her injuries. Perhaps Cinder has, too.
4. The more Cinder merges with the Grimm (the parasite that helps her possess the power, then the Grimm arm...), the more unstable it makes her.

You know, it would be interesting if the recent chain of events has left Cinder with emotional wounds, that if she comes back, would result in the parasite gradually taking over her mind and body since Grimm feed off that kind of stuff.

I'd be surprised if that wasn't capitalized on in some way.

In an effort to become "feared, strong, powerful", Cinder mixes Maiden powers and the Grimm parasite, letting the latter take more of herself by progression - until the strain takes her conscious away.

Cinder becomes Willaim Birkin.

Speaking of nightmare fuel.

Possibly. Not definitely.

That was the interesting thing: it was not stated to be a certainty. It was stated to be a very likely possibility, but not a guarantee.

It's very easy to see how killing a Maiden will stack the odds in the killer's favour of being what the Maiden thinks about as she dies. But it isn't a perfect guarantee either. There may therefore be occasions when the person in the final thoughts of the Maiden are not the killer, but someone else.

Jaune saw the power go from Amber to Cinder when Cinder killed Amber. Also, Qrow emphasised to RNJR that the key was whomever was in the Maiden's thoughts last, and that it's not always someone who can be trusted.

How well Qrow clarified the murder option, we don't know, because the original explanation was off-screen. However, we saw him emphasise the importance of the 'last thought' and that the successor isn't always someone trustworthy.

Jaune almost certainly has enough information to put it together even if it hasn't been explicitly said. He immediately understood Pyrrha's role as soon as Qrow explained about the Maidens — and that was before Qrow explained about the problem of Amber's power being split.

That is the one thing that shouldn't be a surprise. The powers were originally united — in Ozpin. He's the one who split the power in the first place. And he originally split it five ways (Four Maidens and himself).

Ironwood told Pyrrha "No-one's seen the power split like this". Either he didn't consider how the Maidens were created or what Cinder did to Amber really is different to what Ozpin did to his magic when he created the original Maidens.

The fact that the magic originally sat with a single person immediately raises the possibility of it sitting with a single person again. And if someone is willing to hunt a Maiden and kill them for their power, it should naturally raise the question of whether they'd be the type of person who would hunt all four Maidens to steal all the power. Why settle for just one, after all? Especially if the other Maidens could come after you to stop you.

Also, Ozpin mentioned that the gift he gave the twins was about enhancing their senses to help him find Maidens when the magic went to a random successor. Does that mean they have the ability to sense other people who possess Ozpin magic, as if Ozpin's magic calls to itself and they've got the ability to sense that?

There have been a couple of signs that Qrow can sense Raven's nearby presence. However, Raven would have some protection from Qrow working out she's the Spring Maiden — she already 'pings' as possessing Ozpin's magic due to the shapeshifting gift, so it would mask the fact she's obtained even more.

Anyway, one other question it raises is whether the magic can ever return to Ozpin. He speaks of his dwindling power, indicating that the magic doesn't 'regenerate' when he gives it away, but we don't know if there are any circumstances in which it could return to him.

I don't know if it's possible for there to be a moment in time when there are no eligible females anywhere in the world, but there may be other circumstances. Originally, he described his situation as a 'curse'. He only admitted it came with 'some benefits' when Yang forced him to discuss the shapeshifting. However, Ozpin spoke in plural, but then only discussed a single benefit (the magic), so he may still be holding out on what his situation really is (in terms of abilities) — one of the obvious questions, of course, being whether or not he can use every single Semblance of every single host he's ever had. Or, whether every single host has exactly the same Semblance, so his Semblance stacks in both power level and flexibility over time due to the accumulation of increasing Auras and perspectives (and he did imply in the pilot narration that he and Salem have very large souls given that he suggests the solution lies with a smaller soul — and, of course, a more honest one).

I am expecting the parasite to be taking her over in some way.

I'm also expecting that the next time we see her face unmasked, it'll have a Grimm eye instead of being closed shut by scar tissue.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 23rd 2018 at 9:06:42 AM

I feel like if they kill of Cinder they could go this way with Emerald [1]

Or she ditches Salem to have a better life that might work as well. :V

She decides that she wants to finish that art degree and get into a career that does not involve silver-eyed brats maiming her. Several years later the indie art scene buzzes about a new one-eyed artist who seems to draw a lot of silver eyed brats getting murdered by Grimm.

So, if grimm atack by going after evil feeling and thoughts, what does mean to Cinder and her parasite grimm?

I mean considering she is in a near perpetual rage against Ruby...

Honestly, if I was an absolute newcomer to the series and presented with Raven and Yang and asked who looks like the daughter, I would've went with Raven. XD

Also, if Summer was alive, she'd been one as well.

I dont know who a best MILF is, ether Raven or Blake mon.

Also, looking on Adam Trailer we see that Moonslice is not also a close technique but he can in fact used in long range as well.

Which it make me ask if the whole "Adam didnt use is semblence" back in V3 wasnt bullshit or one of those "I read it somewhere" thing it just pop up.

x3 Cinder gets glomped to death?

Ruby X Summer.

I mean almost all signs implicate this as Ruby talking to Summer, but Ruby was still at infancy when Summer died so... could this song be a stealth vehicle for Yang's feelings about Summer? Hey, it's just a theory. A RWBY THEEEORY!

-continues headbanging to this song before work-

IIRC, they made that song because people were complaining about "Red Like Roses" not really having anything in it about Ruby's character, unlike Weiss's "Mirror Mirror", Blake's "From Shadows", and Yang's "I Burn". "Red Like Roses" has almost no lyrics and what few lyrics it has are just waxing poetic on the team as a whole.

It's a good song. I'm not sure it fits Ruby as a character theme, though. We're five seasons in and I don't think Ruby has ever, not even once, angsted about her mom outside of her character trailer.

The song makes it sound like her life is driven by bitterness and angst over her mom's death and. Like. She's never even brought it up. She's the most upbeat and chipper member of the cast with possible exception for Nora, and if any relative has driven her development and growth as a person, it's Uncle Qrow.

Summer might as well never have existed for all it impacts Ruby's character arc. She's not biologically connected to Raven and Qrow's side of the family, but she might as well be. It's actually kinda funny that she's, like, the only person in the world who thinks Qrow's a cool dude, and also the only member of the family he's not related to.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 28th 2018 at 7:25:34 AM

When I actually listed to that song's lyrics I found them completely disconnected with Ruby's displayed character. That doesn't surprise me though, considering the minimal focus Ruby's character received.

Not to mention it played during the Nevermore battle right? What did that have to do with Ruby's (non-existent) angst about her dead mom?

... Now I have an idea for a Chibi skit where everyone is just moaning about their tragic past, but when it comes to Ruby, she moans about having no tragic past, only for everyone to point out to her that her mum is dead. To which she replies "Oh right. I forgot that happened." And cue the collective Face-Palm.