Shingeki no Kyojin/Attack on Titan (Manga Discussion)

You shouldn't assume accuracy in scale for maps anyway.

IIRC the given size of the walls' radius put Paradis as being bigger than central Europe.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

Maybe Marley's just the most populous country on the planet. Somehow.

Secret Signature

The anime gave the distance between the centre of the walls and the outer ring, which was used to calculate the size and determine its larger thannTexas or France.

Also I question the effectiveness of titans walking through the ocean giving how deep parts of it drop and give way to trenches. Between the island and Marley should be shallow to avoid it all but elsewhere you should have points where there are gaps in the line due to the differences terrain height and depth.

Makes me want to think about a Colossal Titan swimming through the ocean.

With a "0", not an "O".

I mean that’s what they did by the looks of things.

They don't walk through the ocean, they swim (as ridiculous as it sounds)

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

...Butterfly or breast stroke?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

Returning to the claim that the series was beating its anti-war anvil all the way during its run - was it, really?

I dropped the series at the end of the first season of the anime, where the story's pro-militaristic, "sacrificing anything and anyone is fine if it brings us closer to victory" stance was getting too grating. The anime was showing a scene of girl crying among the ruins while the characters were justifying their plan of provoking a titan battle in the middle of a populous city. To me it didn't read as "this is bad" but as "this is necessary"

Fast forward to the ending. The part of the story that had most of the protagonists go against Eren's plan of genocide was revealed to be all according to his Zero Requiem, actually. And when he knows the plan, Armin thanks him for killing all these people for das Vaterland his friends.

And it's this genocide that allows Paradis to build up power compared to the rest of the world, in a properly militarized state, of course. Whether peace talks succeed or not, Paradis has the upper hand.

So yeah, in the end the manga contorts itself to justify Eren's ideology. Nothing has changed from the early parts.

I think people (most of them, anyway) saw that this series portrays the horrors of war, and read it as condemning them. But I never got the feeling that it does. At best, it seems to say "war is hell, so you must kill them at any cost before they kill you".

Maybe they just float on the surface and paddle? They're full of steam after all.

Edited by StyxD on Apr 20th 2021 at 11:39:16 AM

The state of TV Tropes.

Not during it's entire run- During it's last third, I said. You know, the one where we get a perspective shift to marleyans soldiers behaving with the exact same mentality as the protagonists in the first season, where they get to experience being attacked by the protagonists in a tragedy that very much mirrors the first chapter of the manga, pointing out exactly how that militaristic mentality if flawed, and where they actually learn the lesson Eren doesn't and that Armin sums up on chapter 137. Using the first season, which is deliberate ammo for that last third of the story, and the last chapter, which has been pointed out for not living up to the themes embodied by the recent developments, as evidence it somehow didn't, rings really hollow, not gonna lie.

and yeah, they manage to swim close to the surface perfectly fine, don't ask me how. I was gonna say "they're very light" but then how do they stomp out the world so clean then.

Edited by Yumil on Apr 20th 2021 at 11:52:15 AM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

I do think certain people try downplay how mixed the messaging actually is, yeah.

I actually had a discussion a bit ago about Pixis' character, and they claimed that him (and Erwin) being so willing to sacrifice the lives of soldiers was portrayed as a flaw. Which I can't agree with because the story hammers in, repeatedly, that if they didn't go as far as they did, they would all be wiped out.

The story treats (or at least tries to) treat the sacrifices as tragic but I never get the impression that we're supposed to consider the characters wrong or flawed for being able to make those decisions. Well, maybe Erwin, but again, it rings a bit hollow when he still brings humanity further than anyone else had at that point.

Edited by LSBK on Nov 11th 2022 at 11:25:14 AM

Yeah, that I agree with - the series definitely has some mixed messaging - but trying to argue the series has been staunchly pro-militaristic is just as much of an oversight as thinking it's been perfectly coherent about delivering an anti-war message.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

I do recall how Erwin and Pixis viewed their actions as nessicary yet also unforgivable.

I haven't read the Manga but i have done research on it and followed its plot. It's been pretty interesting

Its also great to have enough context to Understand this hilarious meme summarizing Tyburs speech

https://youtu.be/-x3kKeHo0kk

The First man

Leaker has apparently translated a part of the Isayama's interview. Putting some of the translation in spoilers just in case.

- The first draft of the final page was different, with three people running towards a tree on the hillside.

- The closer to the final chapter, the harder Isayama would try to search for reviews and comments online. (oof)

- Armin does not approve the genocide, but he's the main beneficiary of Eren's actions and feels like that's he's an accomplice hence the thank you line. I'll be honest I don't understand this part, so hopefully someone else here can clarify it for me.

- For Isayama, the last part of the manga is a difficult theme beyond this ability. Isayama feels that he has not been able to fully express these themes with the manga, so he regrets it.

man that first draft of the final page would have been soo good it's shame we didn't get that.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

Couldn't have been easy coping with the online reaction, which certainly didn't get any kinder after the final chapter.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

Well it looks like the anime could fix some things about the ending

"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."

Mixed Messaging has been an issue for a while. One thing I've noticed is that the actual lives of soldiers didn't matter to commanders until they learned they were fighting humans. Now all people (in-universe) want to talk about are loyalty to people and nations or loving each other. That whole "You need to abandon your humanity to win" thing was weird, because I couldn't tell if that was supposed to be good or bad.

Maybe it's the difference between the mentality of someone who thinks they're fighting against an endless horde of monsters vs. any other war. It almost feels like Isayama himself switched gears at some point early on.

Find the Light in the Dark

Well we do have a year or so.

Plus if the final part is also 16 episodes then there is a lot they could expand with more input from Isayama when he's in a better state of mind.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Oh God, I thought we'd huffed all the copium already.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

I highly doubt they'll fix the ending. You'd basically have to massively rewrite everything before it to do so or change the ending completely.

Well of course not, just a little smoothing out.

Wasn't the path the ending a bit rough?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

A rough path is an understatement. Its more everyone got lost in the woods as the path was completely overgrown and a sign was turned around before managing to randomly stumble out.

Edited by doineedaname on Apr 30th 2021 at 11:30:11 AM

The ending would be fine if we just got those scenes of Eren explaining his plans. And also, y'know, some sense of completion with the whole Ymir Fritz thing. As it stands, she was damn near pointless.

Edited by Codafett on Apr 30th 2021 at 8:39:42 AM

Find the Light in the Dark